Question concerning Section 5 of PA crimes code

[MentorOfMinos]

Dear PAFOA,

I just got off the phone with Sargeant Vogel at the Pittsburgh, PA police department. I had called him wanting to know the legality of my firearm, which is a 12gauge pump action shotgun. He told me he was prohibited by law from divulging legal advice over the phone or in person, but that Section 5 of the PA crimes code would provide me with the information I need. I've looked online and can't seem to find a complete source of this code (which I found surprising!). Furthermore, I don't speak lawyer-speak.

Could any of you either provide me with a link to this code or explain in your own words where and when it is legal to carry a loaded shotgun?

Specifically I want to go running at night with my shotgun over my shoulder in order to train myself to carry the extra weight without getting winded. I suppose I could accomplish this with simply a 20 pound backpack, but the weight is not distributed the same way so in my mind it's not the same. There is also the fact that my 2nd ammendment right says I have the right to keep and bear arms. BEARING arms means carrying them. It doesn't say I only have said right within the confines of my private residence.

The reason I want to jog at night is because I figure it's less likely to freak out a lot of people than running with a slung shotgun during the day would. I understand that 99% of people think guns = killing people and are hooooorrible weapons of death and destruction. As such, I want to avoid inflammatory situations while still being able to exercise my rights. Does anyone know if doing this is a.) legal and b.) requires any kind of permit? If it's slung over my back in plain view, that isn't considered a "concealed" weapon, is it?

Many thanks,
Dave Stratton

P.S. I realize the advice of many people would be "Don't do this" simply because it has the potential to end up in a "dont' taze me, bro" scenario. I don't know that I'd even do this, I just want to know if it's legal so that if I do, I know if I can sue the cop that may try to arrest me. Your knowledge and advice are appreciated. Thank you!

[GunLawyer001]

You can review PA statutes here:
http://government.westlaw.com/linked...sp?SP=pac-1000

Go ahead and jog with a shotgun at night if you want, as long as you have $5K-$10K for a good legal defense. Lawyers have to eat too, you know, and if nobody did dumbass things, we'd all have to handle immigration and intellectual property cases.

Personally, I'd be alarmed if someone ran past my house with a shotgun, at any time of the day or night, and I'd probably call the cops, and I'd expect them to put a stop to it. Go to Home Depot and buy a piece of pipe.

BTW, the Crimes Code is Title 18, and my copy shows that the very first section is Section 101.

[Rule10b5]

"In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)"

Commonwealth v. Hawkins, 692 A.2d 1068, n.4 (1996)

See also: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

"In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)"

Commonwealth v. Hawkins, 692 A.2d 1068, n.4 (1996)

See also: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html

For my own clarification - doesn't that only apply to "Firearms" as defined by §6102, which may or may not include a shotgun, depending on the length of the barrel?

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

"In all parts of Pennsylvania, persons who are licensed may carry concealed firearms. 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108. Except in Philadelphia, firearms may be carried openly without a license. See Ortiz v. Commonwealth, ___ Pa. ___, ___, 681 A.2d 152, 155 (1996) (only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed; in other parts of the Commonwealth, unconcealed firearms do not require a license)"

Commonwealth v. Hawkins, 692 A.2d 1068, n.4 (1996)

See also: http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html

You can certainly carry a shotgun openly without violating the UFA, otherwise, hunting would become problematic. However, in my experience, if you do something with a gun that the cops dislike, they will charge you with something, it just won't be under the UFA. Usually, "disorderly conduct", which in this case might stick. For a loaded shotgun, they may add "reckless endangerment".

My understanding of the Philadelphia exception to open carry of long guns was that it was inspired by the Black Panthers, who were famous at one time for walking around with shotguns. Evidently, the cops were frustrated that it wasn't technically illegal, so they made it illegal in Philadelphia. That's easier than establishing the elements of disorderly conduct, especially when dealing with aggressive Panthers.

But for one person running through the neighborhood at night with a shotgun, I think that the cops would be willing to prosecute for disorderly conduct.

[headcase]

If your shotgun is normal, I.E. not short barreled, you are within your rights to do so. I believe that was your question, no?

Like everything we do in life, you need to weigh the risk. Do what you are comfortable doing. If you are going to run through the city of Pittsburgh, day or night, legal or not, expect to get hassled. Good luck bro.

[SHEPHERD321]

I thought most populated areas had local ordanances that prohibited people from walking around with exposed guns or swords.

[sjl127]

My advice - don't do this. This is stupid.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by SHEPHERD321

I thought most populated areas had local ordanances that prohibited people from walking around with exposed guns or swords.

Municipalities are not permitted to prohibit open carry:

§6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition.

(a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.

(a. l) No right of action.

(1) No political subdivision may bring or maintain an action at law or in equity against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement, injunctive relief or any other relief or remedy resulting from or relating to either the lawful design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition or the lawful marketing or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a political subdivision from bringing or maintaining an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision.

(b) Definitions.-As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Dealer." The term shall include any person engaged in the business of selling at wholesale or retail a firearm or ammunition.

"Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in section 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles).

"Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

(Chgd. by 1.1999, Act 59(7), eff.12/15/99.)

Open carry is legal under state law, thus no municipality may prohibit it.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by SHEPHERD321

I thought most populated areas had local ordanances that prohibited people from walking around with exposed guns or swords.

Oh you poor misguided soul As luck would have it, you've come to the right place. Please feel free to browse the concealed and open carry section....