Need some basic info on shotguns

[Mancolt]

I've decided that my next purchase is going to be a shotgun, most likely a Remington 870...however, that is open to suggestion if anyone else has any suggestions for something that is similarly priced.

Anyways...I know little about shotguns. I've shot them before (and loved it). This shotgun would be for Home Defense and Trap/Skeet shooting only (I don't hunt). I'd just like some explanations about various shotgun terms and models.

1. Remington has the 870 Express and Wingmaster (that I've seen so far, with the Wingmaster being a bit more pricey). What is the difference between the 2 and which would you recommend for me?
2. I've also seen mention of 2 3/4", 3", 3.5", and magnums. I'm pretty sure this is the size of the shells but again, what is the difference and what should I be looking for in a Home Defense/Trap/Skeet gun?
3. What length barrel? I've heard that shorter is better for Home Defense, and longer is better for trap/skeet. If barrels can be swapped in and out, I'll probably just get 2 different lengths.

Any help you can give a shotgun newbie would be greatly appreciated!

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Mancolt

1. Remington has the 870 Express and Wingmaster (that I've seen so far, with the Wingmaster being a bit more pricey). What is the difference between the 2 and which would you recommend for me?

There's really not much difference in function, the Wingmaster has a nicer fit and finish. For your purposes, an 870 Express will do just fine. It's a popular shotgun and for good reason. Another option to consider is the Mossberg 500/590 series of guns.

Keep in mind though that a pump action shotgun isn't the best gun for sporting clays. You can do it and it's a lot of fun, but an auto makes it much easier to be competitive as I understand it.

2. I've also seen mention of 2 3/4", 3", 3.5", and magnums. I'm pretty sure this is the size of the shells but again, what is the difference and what should I be looking for in a Home Defense/Trap/Skeet gun?

It's the maximum length of shell the chamber will hold safely. Go for 2 3/4 or 3", there's really no need to go bigger on a shotgun used for defense. I'm not sure about sporting clays, but I'd assume a 3" is plenty.

3. What length barrel? I've heard that shorter is better for Home Defense, and longer is better for trap/skeet. If barrels can be swapped in and out, I'll probably just get 2 different lengths.

18-20" for home defense, get a longer barrel for sporting clays. They're very simple to swap out and not all that expensive. Some folks who shoot clays can help you with the specifics on the best length and configuration.


Come to one of the group shoots and check a few out.

[scoutjoe]

Ok I'll give it a whirl

the Remington 870 is a fine gun to start with, personally I like Mossberg better because of where the safety is.

1. I can't really give ya an answer between the express and wingmaster, I think the wingmaster is the next "grade" up though

2. The lengths you see are the maximum size(length) of the shell you can put in your gun. For skeet/trap you'll be shooting 2 3/4" loads, depending on your house layout you might shoot those for home defense also (different shot sizes though). Personally I think 3 1/2" would be a bit much for home defense unless you're out in the boonies or you plan on stopping a tank. My HD gun is a Mossy590 with has a 3" chamber. So I went with the 3" if somebody else has a different opinion with some backup on why you need to go bigger than that then by all means.

3. Barrel length- the advantage of a shorter barrel inside the house is maneuverability. The shortest you can legally go (without NFA tax) is 18" . My HD gun has a 20" barrel, while my skeet gun (Mossberg 500A) has a 28" barrel. The longer barrel I think "swings" better with the target and helps get some extra range over the shorter barrel. If you go with the 870 you would be able to get two different barrels that *should* swap out painlessly (once again I'm not as familiar with the 870 platform, I know the 500's swap out in under a minute.) The only issue you might have is the longer tube for shotshells, since the more traditional hunting guns have a shorter tube and the HD guns have a longer tube. I don't think that is as much of an issue with the Remington as it is with the Mossberg

Parting thought

If possible try before you buy, group shoots, local clubs, buddies, etc. Oh ya...have fun

[knight0334]

Unless you are hunting high altitude ducks and geese or really long range turkey - the 3.5" magnums are just vaporware, even the 3" shells are really not needed unless you are shooting at greater ranges.. Everything from house flies to elephant has been taken with 2-1/2 - 2-5/8 inch shells in the last 130+ years using a variety of pellets or slugs.

If you're gonna be only shorting clays and targets - any 2-3/4" or 3" chambered gun will more than suffice - even for home defense against thugs, zombie, bigfoot and T-Rex's. Last time I heard just about all police, and all the military used 2-3/4" shells. Only a few people I've seen shooting clays used 3" shell. ....why, because they aren't needed, the additional recoil is unnecessary, and they are more expensive. Please, don't think the "lil 10ga" is necessary because someone else needs to prove he has big testicles by using the "magnums". A lot of your clay and upland bird hunters are using 20 and 28ga's - just because even the 2-3/4" 12ga is unnecessary.

As for the Remington 870's - they are just as NineseveN described. They are good guns either way. So are the Moss 500's and a great many other makes and models. I agree with scoutjoe - the Mossburg's safety location is far greater than the Remington's.

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For clays and other similar sporting, here is my suggestion on what gun to get:

1st. semi-autos
2nd. over/unders
3rd. side-by-side & drillings
4th. pumpguns
5th. single shots.

Each of the above has their own pros & cons. Some traits are quite obvious, others aren't until you get to using them for fast clays.

Pumps take thought to articulate the slide to get the next clay. ...and unless you've honed yourself into the ability to subconsciously jack that slide after shooting - you may find yourself pulling the trigger on an expended shell.

Semi-auto's can be picky about loads, especially if the gun is designed around 3" or 3-1/2" shell pressures and recoil when using 2-3/4" shells.

Side-by-sides may have confluence problems - depending on if you are a bead shooter or a barrel shooter.

Over/unders - confluence problems, pricey guns..

single shots - slower follow up shots (can be overcame by practice), generally cheap made(not always a negative).

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Barrels: (assuming you get pumpgun)

for sporting - 26-30" for the clays with interchangeable chokes (C, M, F, and any other squeeze you like). A ventilated/cantilever ribbed barrel can help with pointing the shotgun - some people like them, some dont.

for home defense - 18-22" with cylinder to improved cylinder choke.

[Mancolt]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Semi-auto's can be picky about loads, especially if the gun is designed around 3" or 3-1/2" shell pressures and recoil when using 2-3/4" shells.

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Barrels: (assuming you get pumpgun)

for sporting - 26-30" for the clays with interchangeable chokes (C, M, F, and any other squeeze you like). A ventilated/cantilever ribbed barrel can help with pointing the shotgun - some people like them, some dont.

for home defense - 18-22" with cylinder to improved cylinder choke.

Wow, thanks for the detailed info! Couple of questions that I had while reading your post:

Will any shotgun that handles 3" shells also accept 2 3/4"?
What are chokes, how much are they, and what's a C, M, F, etc?
What's a cylinder to improved cylinder choke?

Thanks again!!

[knight0334]

Shotguns with longer chambers will handle lessor shells. Sorta like shooting a 38 special in a 357 magnum. There are cases though that some guns like the longer shell better, like some auto's and semi's due to the function of the action. ...not really much of an issue, but it does happen.

Chokes are constrictions in the bore of a shotgun near the muzzle. Some you can interchange by scrweing in/out, some you can just hand tighten a constrictor, some are part of the bore physically.

The American spec for 12ga is bore of .729"(ranges from .728" to .733" worldwide) = (1) pure lead ball of .729" dia equaling 1/12(hense 12 gauge) of a pound = which equals no choke = cylinder.

C = Cylinder, M = Modified, F = Full. Chokes tighten up the pattern, or spread, of the shot. At closer ranges you dont really need or want a tight pattern. You can blow apart birds or game up close. But at longer rangers the shot will have spread a lot so you'd want a tighter choke (Full, Extra-Full, etc). There are a multitude of different chokes that range from slightly larger than true bore diameter to nearly a tenth of an inch less in diameter than bore.

As explained above - a "C" or Cylinder choke has little to no constriction. An "IC" or Improved Cylinder would have a slightly smaller bore.

[Mancolt]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Shotguns with longer chambers will handle lessor shells. Sorta like shooting a 38 special in a 357 magnum. There are cases though that some guns like the longer shell better, like some auto's and semi's due to the function of the action. ...not really much of an issue, but it does happen.

Chokes are constrictions in the bore of a shotgun near the muzzle. Some you can interchange by scrweing in/out, some you can just hand tighten a constrictor, some are part of the bore physically.

The American spec for 12ga is bore of .729"(ranges from .728" to .733" worldwide) = (1) pure lead ball of .729" dia equaling 1/12(hense 12 gauge) of a pound = which equals no choke = cylinder.

C = Cylinder, M = Modified, F = Full. Chokes tighten up the pattern, or spread, of the shot. At closer ranges you dont really need or want a tight pattern. You can blow apart birds or game up close. But at longer rangers the shot will have spread a lot so you'd want a tighter choke (Full, Extra-Full, etc). There are a multitude of different chokes that range from slightly larger than true bore diameter to nearly a tenth of an inch less in diameter than bore.

As explained above - a "C" or Cylinder choke has little to no constriction. An "IC" or Improved Cylinder would have a slightly smaller bore.

Wow, thanks for the fast and helpful response!! You guys have definitely given me some valuable, helpful information when it comes time to pick a shotgun. Thanks!

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Mancolt

Will any shotgun that handles 3" shells also accept 2 3/4"?

Yes.

What are chokes, how much are they, and what's a C, M, F, etc?

What's a cylinder to improved cylinder choke?

A choke is the amount of tapered constriction in a barrel, either as part of the barrel itself or by an external tube screwed in to the barrel.

When you fire birdshot, buckshot or any other type of shot, once it exits the barrel, the shot begins to spread out. A looser or more open choke profile (open, cylinder, improved cylinder) allows the shot to spread further out, while a more constricted choke (modified up to full, extra full and turkey) keeps the pattern tighter.

One might conclude that the tighter the choke, the better since it will keep the shot together and help keep all of the pellets or shot on target. But at common home defense ranges, a Cylinder or Improved Cylinder (even up to Modified in some cases) is generally best as you do want some spread at such short distances. You're not going to be trying for fist-sized groups at 50 yards with a self-defense gun, so a tighter choke is not needed. Also, you can shoot rifled (not sabot, they require and actual slug barrel) slugs through a Cylinder or Improved Cylinder (again, sometimes even a Modified) without any problems as the choke is still open enough to allow the solid mass of the slug to pass through. Shooting a slug through a Full choke will result in damage to your barrel (the slug is too big to pass through the smaller opening of a full choke).

Here's a good primer on chokes:
http://www.fieldandclays.com/expert_chokes.htm

IMHO, the best source of shotgun info on the net is:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/

I prefer to hang out in this area of their forums (tactical shotguns):
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=7

If you do a search there or browse the forum itself, you'll find many threads asking the same things you are that have been answered by some of the most experienced shotgun folks I've been able to find. Not that we can't or won't help you here, but if you read through that area, you'll find there are questions you could be asking that you never even thought about and you'll know a lot more about shotguns in general.

[Hawk]

You may want to consider an 870 Express Combo as your first shotgun. I'm thinking the 20 inch deer barrel will work for home defense and the 26 or 28 inch barrel for clays.http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ess_combos.asp

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by Hawk

You may want to consider an 870 Express Combo as your first shotgun. I'm thinking the 20 inch deer barrel will work for home defense and the 26 or 28 inch barrel for clays.http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ess_combos.asp

Good choice.. and additional choke tube would be easy to find for differing requirements with the longer barrel.