Helping a cop in need

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

We posted at the same time, but I did want to emphasize this point. You will pay, period. Say goodbye to at least a $1000 retainer.

That's at a bare minimum even to get your phone call returned. If you actually get sued or arrested, count on spending at least $50,000 to get you to trial.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Nope, I'm not doing a damn thing but calling 911 to report it.

If the police have no duty to protect me, .

Ahh --- BUT they will help you, voluntarily, in the vast majority of circumstances.

As such,I will voluntarily reciprocate and return the favor.

I look at the human in need of assistance, not the issues I have with the legal formalities of the persons occupational position. Formalities beyond their control I'll add...

This is a human issue, not a cop issue.

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Ahh --- BUT they will help you, voluntarily, in the vast majority of circumstances.

As such,I will voluntarily reciprocate and return the favor.

I look at the human in need of assistance, not the issues I have with the legal formalities of the persons occupational position. Formalities beyond their control I'll add...

This is a human issue, not a cop issue.

I disagree, but I'm willing to assume you're correct, simply for the sake of argument. But even assuming as much, the rest of my post is still completely valid.

You're likely screwed, and the very people you just helped will be running from you like the plague when everyone lawyers-up. If you survive. Or if you're not arrested and charged.

As I've said many times: My well-being is important to me because it is necessary to my family. If I'm not around, or piss away $50,000, they suffer. I'm not putting a stranger above my family. Ever.

[pex]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Do you have family/relatives that are anti-gun and/or believe the police are your protection?

If you were witness to them being attacked would you let it happen and just go call the police too?

These other people aren't exactly sworn protectors of the constitution who made a choice to be part of the executive.

This is a human issue, not a cop issue.

If it's a human issue, why do you default toward the officer?

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Nope, I'm not doing a damn thing but calling 911 to report it.

If the police have no duty to protect me, even when I have a restraining order issued by a judge, against a specific person and have articulated a specific, cognizable threat then I have no duty to help them, either. Town of Castle Rock, Colorado v. Gonzales, et al., 125 S. Ct. 2796, 2810 (2005).

You can't have it both ways; if you're not obligated to protect me, I'm not obligated to protect you. If I wanted to play cop I would have gone to the academy and been one for real. I don't have the training, experience, or backing to make it a viable or safe option for everyone involved.

Notwithstanding, if you choose to interfere:

(i) You expose yourself to potential criminal liability if anyone is injured and your conduct is not justified;
(ii) You expose yourself to substantial and likely civil liability in almost any case;
(iii) You risk getting yourself killed;
(iv) You risk being arrested along with the bad guy if the cop isn't sure who you are or what you're doing there; and
(v) You risk being killed or beat to shit when other officers show up and confuse you with the bad guy.

And at the end of the day, even if you aren't hurt, and everything gets straightened out, and the line officers are on your side, you know who's standing downwind when the shit hits the fan in court?

You are.

The department has its lawyers. And they absolutely, positively, will not help you. They won't even talk to you in the event they get sued. They probably won't even want to talk to your lawyer, to be honest. And god help you if you ventilate someone and it's a questionable shoot. It'll all end up on your head. And the criminal has his public defender and PI lawyer on contingency. Who do you have? Whoever you can pay for. And, believe me, you'll pay, whether the suit is valid, or bullshit, you'll pay the lawyer.

As cold as this opinion is, I have to agree with it. As soon as the suspect realizes a civilian assisted a LEO, they will have $$$ in their eyes.

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

This is a human issue, not a cop issue.

I agree that it's a human issue. And you and your family/kids/etc. being financially ruined for trying to do the right thing will also be a human issue. If you can make the decision to potentially sacrifice your family's future and well-being for a stranger in a split second, then you're a better man than I. I have to admit that I'm not sure if I would be able to do it.

A situation like the OP described is just one more reason why we need HB641 (Stand Your Ground / Castle Doctrine) to be made law. This would be the Good Samaritan law for use of force in defense of yourself or others, regardless of whether that person is a LEO or not. People would be much more likely to help others, LEO or otherwise, when they know that they can't be held criminally or financially liable for simply trying to help.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

I disagree, but I'm willing to assume you're correct, simply for the sake of argument. But even assuming as much, the rest of my post is still completely valid.

You're likely screwed, and the very people you just helped will be running from you like the plague when everyone lawyers-up. If you survive. Or if you're not arrested and charged.

As I've said many times: My well-being is important to me because it is necessary to my family. If I'm not around, or piss away $50,000, they suffer. I'm not putting a stranger above my family. Ever.

So be it.

As I said. Even though police have no legal obligation to "protect" you, they do it anyway. I assume for the same reason I would do the same for them.
Because it is the right thing to do.
Don't bother me with the warning about frivolous litigation from some person guilty of criminal assault - I'll worry about that after doing the right thing. I'd rather deal with that than the guilt of not helping someone in need.
Hey, look at the bright side...if I do get sued I'll be looking you up

[headcase]

All the consequences duly noted, I would still help. Cop in trouble, lady getting mugged, kid getting a beatdown, guy had a heart attack........ maybe it's just me. It is just who I am. I was a soldier and my first reaction is to defend those who need defending. If I'm sued for it, so be it.

[JDC]

I agree I couldn't turn my back and be able to sleep at night. As for the legal ramifications I'll deal with that later. That is definitely part of the problem with this country everybody is afraid of getting sued instead of doing the right thing.

Originally Posted by headcase

All the consequences duly noted, I would still help. Cop in trouble, lady getting mugged, kid getting a beatdown, guy had a heart attack........ maybe it's just me. It is just who I am. I was a soldier and my first reaction is to defend those who need defending. If I'm sued for it, so be it.

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Hey, look at the bright side...if I do get sued I'll be looking you up

One of my worst nightmares, actually, is having to help a friend who's getting sued (or prosecuted) for doing the right thing. The stakes are nauseatingly high. I once represented a friend in a custody trial (we won) but I didn't sleep for a good week before the trial, and puked right before walking into court. It was miserable.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by headcase

All the consequences duly noted, I would still help. .

I don't understand how someone could rationalize standing by and doing nothing as they witnessed a cop or anyone being beaten/killed when they could assist or end the altercation.

Again, depending on the situation. If I'm out with my family their protection is my primary goal. If I'm driving home from work and see a LEO getting assaulted on the side of the road my primary objective will be helping the victim.