Helping a cop in need

[pex]

Ask of the cop while he is taken in his struggle:
"Sir, do you uphold the Constitution in all that you do? Also, sir, ought I be able to keep and bear arms in defense of myself and the state to my satisfaction?"

If he answers affirmatively, follow in your conscience.

If he answers negatively, tell him you are calling the police -- for they can be yours, and his, only protection. Hopefully they will be there in time to document the aftermath appropriately. Do nothing more.

[Pa. Patriot]

It depends on the situation as I encounter it. In the sense of the OP's question, a cop getting the snot beat out of them by an obviously superior force, then I agree with the 'herd'
It's on like Donkey Kong.

I'll call 911 once the attack is stopped.

[str8shooter]

Originally Posted by Pro2A

Lets say you're walking down the street and you see a police officer struggling with a suspect who is twice the size of the officer and the suspect seems to be winning the struggle. Do you intervene to assist the officer in subduing the suspect, or stay back and try to call for help?

Grab the rc car and the skateboard and run. Oh wait, that only happens if the suspect is half the cop's size.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by pex

Ask of the cop while he is taken in his struggle:
"Sir, do you uphold the Constitution in all that you do? Also, sir, ought I be able to keep and bear arms in defense of myself and the state to my satisfaction?"

If he answers affirmatively, follow in your conscience.

If he answers negatively, tell him you are calling the police -- for they can be yours, and his, only protection. Hopefully they will be there in time to document the aftermath appropriately. Do nothing more.

That doesn't show much humanity or support for law and would further that LEO's negative opinion on such things.

Sometimes to change someone's mind is to show you support the law and are against breaches of peace.

If the court's opinion at trial is that Hue & Cry was not fulfilled or was required and if the judge so desired - adoption of a penalty could be levied on you for failing to assist. ...not saying it would happen, but it is quite possible if you get a judge having a bad day or goes by the old system. I cant recall it happening in PA, but it has happen in Florida(a constitutionally adopted commonlaw state) in the early '90s when a woman was attacked and a single Tampa PD officer tried arresting the guy. A crowd gathered, as the arrest turned into a fight between the LEO and the perp, the LEO asked for help many times with no-one coming to assistance - each of the person that were identified in the crowd were found in violation and fined. Calling for assistance is usually enough to fulfill your duties today. Just in the last year or so when that woman was being raped in a hallway in I think Illinois - only one person made an attempt to help. ..the others are being investigated and may be charged for failing to render assistance or pass notice(Hue & Cry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry


On top of it all, its bad Karma to pull that on an officer when he or she is in need of help.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by pex

Ask of the cop while he is taken in his struggle:
"Sir, do you uphold the Constitution in all that you do? Also, sir, ought I be able to keep and bear arms in defense of myself and the state to my satisfaction?"

If he answers affirmatively, follow in your conscience.

If he answers negatively, tell him you are calling the police -- for they can be yours, and his, only protection. Hopefully they will be there in time to document the aftermath appropriately. Do nothing more.

Do you have family/relatives that are anti-gun and/or believe the police are your protection?

If you were witness to them being attacked would you let it happen and just go call the police too?

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by sjl127

That's a good point. False arrest.

Did you know that Texas law says that if a police officer is arresting you, or busts into your home, and you absolutely know that you did nothing wrong, so it is a wrongful arrest, that you're allowed to shoot him dead?

It's the exact opposite in PA though.

[Rule10b5]

Nope, I'm not doing a damn thing but calling 911 to report it.

If the police have no duty to protect me, even when I have a restraining order issued by a judge, against a specific person and have articulated a specific, cognizable threat then I have no duty to help them, either. Town of Castle Rock, Colorado v. Gonzales, et al., 125 S. Ct. 2796, 2810 (2005).

You can't have it both ways; if you're not obligated to protect me, I'm not obligated to protect you. If I wanted to play cop I would have gone to the academy and been one for real. I don't have the training, experience, or backing to make it a viable or safe option for everyone involved.

Notwithstanding, if you choose to interfere:

(i) You expose yourself to potential criminal liability if anyone is injured and your conduct is not justified;
(ii) You expose yourself to substantial and likely civil liability in almost any case;
(iii) You risk getting yourself killed;
(iv) You risk being arrested along with the bad guy if the cop isn't sure who you are or what you're doing there; and
(v) You risk being killed or beat to shit when other officers show up and confuse you with the bad guy.

And at the end of the day, even if you aren't hurt, and everything gets straightened out, and the line officers are on your side, you know who's standing downwind when the shit hits the fan in court?

You are.

The department has its lawyers. And they absolutely, positively, will not help you. They won't even talk to you in the event they get sued. They probably won't even want to talk to your lawyer, to be honest. And god help you if you ventilate someone and it's a questionable shoot. It'll all end up on your head. And the criminal has his public defender and PI lawyer on contingency. Who do you have? Whoever you can pay for. And, believe me, you'll pay, whether the suit is valid, or bullshit, you'll pay the lawyer.

[NineseveN]

This is a tough one...

I guess I would answer saying that I would want to help, but I probably wouldn't short of perhaps stopping an execution or murder. Dial 911, find cover and keep my gun at the ready.

I don't know what's going on. I don't know what drugs, if any, the alleged "perp" is on. I don't know if he can overpower me as well as he did the cop. I don't know that the perp has a buddy around the corner on his way. I don't know that a responding officer wouldn't shoot my ass into oblivion upon coming on the scene and seeing me as part of the struggle. I don't know that the guy in uniform really is a cop. In short, I don't know anything...and thus I would treat it as I would if it were two citizens engaged in a struggle; dial 911, move to cover, have my gun ready just in case and hope that all that's needed from me is to be a good, credible witness.

[40twist]

I wouldnt help .... Ide do what they tell us to do , Call the cops.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

And, believe me, you'll pay, whether the suit is valid, or bullshit, you'll pay the lawyer.

We posted at the same time and I tend to agree with everything you just wrote, but I did want to emphasize this point. You will pay, period. Say goodbye to at least a $1000 retainer.