illegal firearm registery ?

[jerkin]

I have a question about the illegal firearm registery that doesn't exist or isn't illegal since it isn't complete. Are the PSP the only ones that keep these records or are there other agency's like the ATF that have them also? Does this pertain only to handguns or are records kept on all firearm purchases for which the paperwork is filled out? OK I guess it was 2 questions.

[The Drew]

the gun dealer is required to keep the 4473 form (I think I got the number right) and in the event he goes out of business they're to be turned over to the ATF, however I don't think they have a database anywhere, just piles of paper. This goes for all guns purchased from a dealer.

The PA state police keep a sales database of all handguns sold through dealers (any other sale is prohibited with few exceptions) They do NOT keep records of long guns.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by jerkin

I have a question about the illegal firearm registery that doesn't exist or isn't illegal since it isn't complete. Are the PSP the only ones that keep these records or are there other agency's like the ATF that have them also? Does this pertain only to handguns or are records kept on all firearm purchases for which the paperwork is filled out? OK I guess it was 2 questions.

Only handguns and certain NFA devices that have the PA St. Police form filled at time of transfer goes into the PSP "database". They do not gather data from the 4473 forms. However, they also log the call/denial/approvals of the PICS calls - which they are supposed to destroy after so long.

The ATF only keeps track of manufactured and imported firearm numbers and NFA type weapons. The dont track sales or transfers, only doing so after the fact to catch someone or trace a firearm to a crime.

Example: gun is found at murder scene, not in PSP database. PSP contacts ATF with make/model/ser#/etc. ATF then finds who/where it was imported or made. Then from the manufacturer, they find out which distributor housed it. Then from there they find out which dealer received it. Then from the 4473 form at the dealer they find out who bought the firearm.

[sjl127]

Originally Posted by The Drew

The PA state police keep a sales database

If you try to dress up a turd, it's still a turd. Call it for what it is - A Registry!

[jerkin]

So basically anything that there was ever a 4473 filled out on is subject to confiscation if this country ever turns into England or Australia.

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by jerkin

So basically anything that there was ever a 4473 filled out on is subject to confiscation if this country ever turns into England or Australia.

Not entirely.. Dealers are only required to keep a copy of the 4473 for so many years, then they can be destroy. If they go out of business, they send the one within that time frame to the ATF.

[sjl127]

Did you see Red Dawn? When that cuban commie tells his thugs to go to the gun store and get "form 4473" to see who has, and what kind of guns...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Form_4473

[knight0334]

Originally Posted by sjl127

Did you see Red Dawn? When that cuban commie tells his thugs to go to the gun store and get "form 4473" to see who has, and what kind of guns...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Form_4473

Yeah, I saw that.. and it did stick out in my mind.

That scenario is too far fetched, the US government coming for your guns has a far greater probability.

Reaction to an invasion, gun grab or tyrannical take-over would have a faster response than what was portrayed in that movie. Gun owners that weren't willing to give up their arms would go into hiding or face them upfront instead of acting like doofus's. I seriously doubt that a die-hard gun person under such a situation would allow a FFL's records to remain - more than likely they were disappear in a "burglary" or the place would catch fire. Many FFL's would probably help with the weenie roast too.

I for one, would not be at my home after SHTF. My valuables, my guns and my @ss would be elsewhere taking advantage individual or unorganized patrols by ambush.

[Davidmush]

I think the question is in the proper preperation of documents.
Can you give the whole list of the necessary paper stuff?

[The Drew]

Originally Posted by sjl127

If you try to dress up a turd, it's still a turd. Call it for what it is - A Registry!

I'm not dressing up a turd... I'm telling you what it is... a sales database... while it's an effective 90+% registry, it still isn't a registry because there is no duty to register handguns. I still think the supreme court got it wrong and I think that it is illegal, however it is what it is, a sales database.