Home defense

[JayBell]

if I can make a suggestion...
those folks that have a recoil issue with shotguns, try the Knoxx Specops stock.

not only is it adjustable in length, good for youth and women, but it has a recoil reduction system built into it that can reduce up to 80% of the recoil.

http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/P...cOpsStock.html

I dont have the full stock version, but I have the "breachers grip" system on my Serbu Super Shorty, which is a mossberg 12ga shotgun pistol (AOW) with a 6.5" barrel.

I can comfortable shoot 3" magnum slugs with ONE HAND, thats how good the mechanical recoil reducer works.

try it, you will be amazed, look at the pick below, and just think how much it kicked BEFORE the grip!

[luckyned7]

S! All

I'd like to jump thread matter and hear more about the Knoxx recoil reducer stocks..if I may. I'd like to hear from owners and hear their + or -s of their practical use. email me plez at luckyned7@yahoo.com and reference the subject pretty-plez.

I for one will reach for my shotgun first and foremost in any situation that it would be possible and or feasible..and we can come up with all kinds of non-real world situations where you would be better armed..IF..you couldn't get to that shotty. The west was won with a shotgun..by women..dampit.

[SeaRider]

Jaybell, how does it feeds the next shell?. I don't see the "pump" in it. Nice piece.

[JayBell]

Originally Posted by SeaRider

Jaybell, how does it feeds the next shell?. I don't see the "pump" in it. Nice piece.

the pump is the flip down handle attached to the slide bars...as below.
they even sell a rather large holster for it that is dropdown.



the US Army ordered over 20 of these built on Mossberg 590s for doorbusting in Iraq, and Serbu now offers one based on the remington 870.

its really fun to shoot, even with slugs, and certainly has a large fireball

heres a 962K movie link, I think it uses quicktime AVI codec, but Mediaplayer works it.

http://www.bigboomstick.com/guns/sss-fireball.avi

if you cant see the AVI, heres a screenshot:



as a further note, this is from the "FatBastard" version I used to be about 3 years and 50lbs ago:-)

[SeaRider]

That's so cool, thanks.

[Willtallica]

I don't know if this was brought up, but a shoot gun is only great for point blank engagements. In jungled war fare, the 2nd, and 4th shots are probably the most deadly, and advantaged. Shot guns are very laggy in that respect. Not to mechin the huge holes you'd put in your walls.

I'd go with a beretta 9mm (92FS, 15 rnd clip), or some kind of SMG, like a MP7(40rnd clip).

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Willtallica

Not to mechin the huge holes you'd put in your walls.

First off Home defence is not jungle warefare, second if you miss your shot at 20 feet, you need to learn how to shoot again! I have seen some big homes in my times, but rarely one where rooms exeed 20 feet. At 20 feet, I dotn need to take a carful aim with any shotgun, i gan hit my target from the hip.

[Willtallica]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

First off Home defence is not jungle warefare, second if you miss your shot at 20 feet, you need to learn how to shoot again! I have seen some big homes in my times, but rarely one where rooms exeed 20 feet. At 20 feet, I dotn need to take a carful aim with any shotgun, i gan hit my target from the hip.

Home defense is home defense, jungle war fare can occur, and be a scenario within defending your home as soon as one person steps aside, hides, conceals them self, does not wish to confront, but is trying to attack. If you're intruder happens to see you, do you expect him to march up to you, or scurry? That's rhetorical. I'm very insecure, and so I look at the worst outcomes even if they're just a little surreal.

The range is not the problem, but the tight quarters is. You can not snap shoot with a long shotgun, it's just way to long. You'd have to put the gun butt ontop of your shoulder in order shorten the barrel length if you wanted to securely come around corners with your weapon, or else the intruder may see your gun way ahead of you. Even if you brought it up, you'd have to bring it down. Long guns are costly in tight situations.

And of course you shoot again. The problem I was implying was the lag caused by the need to pump, unless you're talking about buying a semi-automatic shotgun. Then that's a whole other story, because they do have almost pistol sized semi-shotguns made in south africa, but fixed with longer barrels for civilians.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Willtallica

And of course you shoot again. The problem I was implying was the lag caused by the need to pump, unless you're talking about buying a semi-automatic shotgun. Then that's a whole other story, because they do have almost pistol sized semi-shotguns made in south africa, but fixed with longer barrels for civilians.

With a little practice, the pump comes naturally, you dont have to worry about it happening. Its as quick as you want to make it happen, mind you if you have 2 arms... You dont usually do home defence with a full lenght shotgun, Barel of your 1911 is 2 feet in front of you, barrel of your 590 is 2 feet in front of you, no biggy in differance.
You know your house much better then your aggressor, you know where things are, you know where the floor boards squeek... You have all the advantage, besides if you can get to a phone, why go searching the house, there are people who do that for a living.

[DPB]

Let me toss this out there.

In my opinion, "home defense" should not be confused with "combat assault on a structure," "room clearing," "storming the castle," or anything other than "home defense."

In home defense, again, in my opinion, the defender should seek an advantageous position where one can minimize and control the axes (hopefully singular, axis) of approach, preferably from behind cover. This minimizes the requirement for marksmanship as you are covering a single, finite approach, typically a hallway or door. It also should eliminate the requirement for retention, or indeed for any slinging the firearm about in the confined space, as again, you are static and covering a finite, predetermined area, where you will have the ability to fire on the offending persons before retention becomes an issue.

Your advantageous postion should, obviously, have your guns and communications (phone), because you should be calling the police. Also, you have now fulfilled any "duty to retreat" (depends on the state, I'm not sure what PA law is). For those of you who have read Clausewitz (or US military doctrine), you know that a defensive position should be able to hold off three times its own number in attackers, so you have stacked the odds considerably in your favor.

These factors also minimize relative target movement, most shortcomings of the defensive weaponry, and inexperience on the part of the defender, as they now only have to manipulate the weapon and fire in a predetermined direction WHEN THEY MAKE POSITIVE TARGET ID. They do not have to move, retain, corner, clear, dodge-duck-dive-dip-and-dodge, or anything else.

And yes, I am saying that on the first indications of a break in, you retreat to your defensive position. Whatever the intruder does to your stuff, fine, that's why you have insurance. I'm not aware of any place where it is legal to kill someone in defense of your plasma TV. If they want you, make them come through a wall of lead to get you. Obviously, your loved ones (if any) should also be in or behind your position, or in another pre-determined position where they are protected.

The points people have made about lights and overpenetration were good. The lights, whether in the structure, weapon mounted, or separate are primarily to provide target ID, any distraction effect is secondary (don't expect the intruder to stop because you shined a light in his eyes.) A 20 guage slug will shatter a cinder block (yes, the cinder block was the intended target).

Also, the "fire drill" technique was an excellent idea. And the answer might not be for everyone to run into the same area. If the defensive position covers the approaches to the other living spaces (common hallway), those not in the defensive position might be best served by staying low in a closet or otherwise concealed.

JayBell, you have that AND you have a registered Colt? You need to stop before I cry. That's also the only firsthand accounting I've heard of the CopStock, and it sounds like a good system.