No SERPA Allowed!

[KeithPA]

Equipment List:

• * One (1) open mind
  * A Fighting Pistol
  * Bring a lunch to the range both days
  * 1000 rounds of quality ammo
  * Strongside belt holster
  
  (Sorry but we do not allow the Blackhawk “Serpa” Holster in our classes.)
  * Eye and ear protection (muffs recommended)
  * Sturdy gun belt (double thickness)
  * Minimum of three magazines
  * Magazine pouch
  * Raingear (We shoot rain or shine)
  * Hat and sunblock
  * Knee and elbow pads (optional)
  * Drinking water (Camelback strongly recommended)
  * Bug Spray
  * Pen and paper

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/course.php?courseID=5



So I was looking to find something useful to do with my Spring Break this year. And the only (popular) place I can find classes with is Tactical Response. Too boot, I just bought two Serpas.

Any insight from anyone?
Anyone ever hear of this before?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by DeltaII5

So I was looking to find something useful to do with my Spring Break this year. And the only (popular) place I can find classes with is Tactical Response. Too boot, I just bought two Serpas.

Any insight from anyone?
Anyone ever hear of this before?

Their 4 day block in Hollidaysburg is top notch. I took the Advanced 2 days a few years ago.

I'll hazard a guess they've seen or heard of NDs from the Serpa holsters and don't want to deal with that prospect.

[lildobe]

I've heard of this... and it's mostly becasue if you draw from a Serpa holster incorrectly, it is possible, however unlikely, that your finger can end up on the trigger.

Don't ask me how... I've tried multiple times to recreate the conditions that are toted as making the Serpa dangerous, and I've been unable to.

I think it's just that there is a guy out there that is a prominent instructor who doesn't like them, and has been smearing them.

A properly maintained and adjusted Serpa holster is safe and reliable.

[Emptymag]

Yeah, Marc will be along shortly to tell you why.


It's because a ninja bad guy could throw a pebble in the retention release mechanism, and you won't be able to draw your handgun before the other ninja bad guy snaps the gun off your belt like the cheap toy that it is.

Then he'll shoot you with your own gu...n... wait, how's he getting it out of the holster with that damned pebble in there?

Oh, wait! ninja bad guy would be highly likely to shoot himself because he would press the button IN, and simultaneously pull his finger BACK, discharging the firearm and putting a hole in his split-toe Tabi shoes!
Good thing that pebble is in there!

ehh, maybe I got it all wrong?

Marc?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by lildobe

Don't ask me how... I've tried multiple times to recreate the conditions that are toted as making the Serpa dangerous, and I've been unable to.

Trying it at home, where you're concentrating on the draw is one thing. At a training class, where you mind is focused on many new things at once, and where there is a little stress involved, and where you may be drawing while moving and/or from unusual body positions, is another.

You can find Serpa ND reports (live rounds and also Airsoft rounds) on the Internet.

[BearTitan]

Here we go again! I only have experience with the Serpa for the Sig 220, so I can only speak for that model, but I will say this:

If you can draw my Sig from the Serpa holster and find a way to end up with your finger on the trigger, without a deliberate second finger motion, you can take the gun home with you for free

I have actually tried to make this happen hundreds of times in dry fire drills. After a thread like this a few weeks ago, I went back to the Serpa to see if I could recreate a ND sitiuation. I could not.

[XD45]

I could kinda sorta see it happening, push in the button, quick draw while still keeping pressure with your trigger finger, and when you clear the holster its got nowhere to go but straight for the trigger. I don't see how it wouldn't end up atleast near the trigger and obviously everyone has different hands, not saying it happens everytime with everyshooter but obviously its possible since its happened.. But I would assume they have had one or 2 ND with those holsters in their class, I dont see them doing that just to start a debate on an internet forum they don't even know of

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by dgg9

You can find Serpa ND reports (live rounds and also Airsoft rounds) on the Internet.

That's the thing - I've read several ND Reports involving Serpa holsters and attempted to re-create the conditions they describe, so far with only one success, and it took so much contorting and pressure that I can't see it happening in real life.

Now I'm not saying that it's never happened, but I can't see it happening with someone who has proper finger discipline.

Besides, the natural drawing position with a properly adjusted Serpa holster lines your index finger up with the slide of the weapon.

[BearTitan]

Originally Posted by XD45

I could kinda sorta see it happening, push in the button, quick draw while still keeping pressure with your trigger finger, and when you clear the holster its got nowhere to go but straight for the trigger. I don't see how it wouldn't end up atleast near the trigger and obviously everyone has different hands, not saying it happens everytime with everyshooter but obviously its possible since its happened.. But I would assume they have had one or 2 ND with those holsters in their class, I dont see them doing that just to start a debate on an internet forum they don't even know of

I'll let you try it on 1/13. Hey, you just might take a Sig 220 home with you!

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by lildobe

That's the thing - I've read several ND Reports involving Serpa holsters and attempted to re-create the conditions they describe, so far with only one success, and it took so much contorting and pressure that I can't see it happening in real life.

Again, when you were doing that, you were concentrating on the task at hand of drawing. At training classes, your mind is on many things.

Even so, it may be that the Serpa holster is fine for YOU.

But the reason a training group might ban them is that they deal with large numbers of students of varying skill/comfort levels (especially at the basic pistol class), and statistically the odds increase that someone will eventually ND at their class. They have to think in terms of "large numbers + lowest common denominator" when evaluating risks.