Using the "wedge" to our advantage-- left-leaning gunners please read

[Eugene V. Debs]

Abortion, guns, gay marriage-- these are "wedge" issues we are told. From a centrist political position they are "wedge issues" that create disunity and disharmony amongst Americans, for leftists they are issues used by the ruling elite to drive a wedge in the working-class and distract us from pursuing our interests in a united front. I believe there is some truth to this, but although the ruling elite may be in a better position to play "divide and conquer" they do not have a monopoly on this tactic.

What we left-leaning defenders of gun rights need to do is drive this wedge into the heart of the American Left. By American Left I mean everything from the grassroots of the Democratic Party to the Greens to the communists to the anarchists. The Democratic Party, and, particularly its base, is key, however, this is an issue that can be attacked throughout the anti-war and anti-globalization movements. .

If we can get third parties and independent movements to either support gun rights, or at least drop the issue of gun control, that would be great, but getting the base of the Democratic Party divided on the issue (by organizing those traditional Democratic voters and activists at least sympathetic to gun rights), would be an even greater achievement. Democratic politicians want one thing and one thing only-- they want to be elected. If they reasonably believe the "gun issue" is going to cost them the election, 9 times out of 10 they will drop the issue whatever their personal beliefs on it may be. Same goes for the DNC and the Party's other leadership organs.

That's not to say that some of this is not already happening. The Democrats, having lost elections to the "gun issue" over the years, have, on the whole, softened their position on gun control. And there does exist a small movement of Democrats, Liberals and progressives (mostly online) coalescing around opposition towards traditional Democratic Party policy on guns.

But it's far from a dead issue...the nascent "pro-gun progressive" movement is not well-organized, still small, and mostly based online...and the Democratic Party's 'hands off" approach to gun control cannot be trusted to last. The Party's retreat from gun control is not based on any sort of principle, nor even on fear of an organized opposition within their own ranks, but is merely a tactical decision to stay away from certain "hot button" issues until their grip on power is more secure. The gun control interests are still strong in the Party, and the idea of gun control still carries quite a bit of ideological currency amongst Party politicians, operatives and activists.

What is necessary is a principled and well-organized gun-rights movement working within the American Left. Within the Democratic Party's base, and within the broader anti-war, anti-globalization, anti-imperialist and anti-capitalist movements. From where I'm sitting, there is good reason to believe that, with good leadership, organization and program, such a movement can succeed, not in winning every left-leaning American to the right of armed self-defense, but winning ENOUGH to make gun control a dead issue.

Due to my political and union activism, both online and off, I come across all types of people from across the ideological spectrum of the American Left. Anarchists/Libertarian Socialists and certain Trotskyists have always opposed gun-control, but I have also run across many, many left Liberals and "soft" socialists, both on internet political forums and in the real world, who once took gun control as a given who, over the last 8 years, have started to acknowledge the right to bear arms. It's very heartening, but also a bit disappointing to realize that the potential of this turning tide might be lost without organization.

I very much hope that I can return to Philly soon, as I think there is some real potential there for organizing a left-leaning movement for self-defense, against crime and against authoritarian city government. Threaten the votes of the mayor and city council by splitting their base and they'll come around.

A very modest program for such a movement would be:

1. The creation of a left-leaning gun-rights organization. One that exists in the real world, with officers and meetings, not just online. Local or regional will do for now, but the goal should be national.

2. Leafletting at anti-war marches, rallies, picket lines, union halls, Democratic Party meetings, conventions and caucuses.

3. Recruiting and organizing union members who would normally vote Democrat, but cherish their gun rights.

4. Recruiting ministers and civil rights leaders in the "inner cities", or, failing that, direct recruitment and organizing of pro-self-defense individuals in working-class neighborhoods-- White, Black and Hispanic. A successful movement on the left for gun rights cannot afford to be all-white. In Phillly it would need AT LEAST an equal number of Blacks and Hispanics, especially in important and high-profile leadership positions.

5. Some level of "entryism" into the Democratic Party would be necessary, at least amongst rank-and-file Party activists/organizations. I say this in spite of my extreme distaste for the Democratic Party, and I do believe this entryism should not compromise the organization's political independence. For example, the organization should go no further than supporting pro-gun candidates in primaries, but should refrain from "official endorsements" in the generals...promising only to encourage its members withhold votes from anti-gun candiates, and indvidual members who are Democrats of course could work on pro-gun Dem candidates' campaigns.

6. Entryism into the Green and Working Families Parties.

7. Alliance on personal liberty issues (guns, drugs, gay rights, etc.) with the Libertarian Party.

8. Although this organization/movement would be politically and ideologically independent of the NRA, GOA, and ACLU they would make common cause with them.

9. The organization should strive to embrace consistent defense of ALL civil liberties, but have a focus on gun-rights.

That's my proposal. Thoughts? I'm sure the more conservative members here might find this idea distasteful, however, everyone here must recognize the greatest threat to gun rights in PA comes from Philly, and the only way to stop this threat to the liberty of both Philly and other PA residents is to organize around the issue from the left.

[Jelanen]

Its my impression from over here to the right of Rush Limbaugh is that the basis of left-wing thought is a de-emphasis on personal responsibility that is manifested in social programs, "safety nets", and economic centralization/socialization. Gun rights and gun ownership in general is incumbent on a large degree of acceptance of personal responsibility and thats just not something I see remotely present in Philly or Democratic strongholds in general. Theres too much of a need to blame someone else. Be it "The Man", the "ruling-elite", the NRA, etc., the last person that the left seems to want to point the finger at is themselves.

I'm not saying that right-wing parties are any better....its a human trait that really transcends political affiliation (remember Eve blamed the serpent for HER sin). I think if you can somehow work more personal responsibility into the left you could really get some work done over there. I know Bill Cosby has really tried to get this message out, but I'm not sure how much people listen to him. Truthfully, good luck to you.

Even though I'm very conservative (paleoconservative, just to separate myself from the neocons), I welcome both an increase in acceptance of the 2A AND a health political discourse that is based on reason and not asinine drive-by media soundbites.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by Jelanen

Its my impression from over here to the right of Rush Limbaugh is that the basis of left-wing thought is a de-emphasis on personal responsibility that is manifested in social programs, "safety nets", and economic centralization/socialization. Gun rights and gun ownership in general is incumbent on a large degree of acceptance of personal responsibility and thats just not something I see remotely present in Philly or Democratic strongholds in general. Theres too much of a need to blame someone else. Be it "The Man", the "ruling-elite", the NRA, etc., the last person that the left seems to want to point the finger at is themselves.

I'm not saying that right-wing parties are any better....its a human trait that really transcends political affiliation (remember Eve blamed the serpent for HER sin). I think if you can somehow work more personal responsibility into the left you could really get some work done over there. I know Bill Cosby has really tried to get this message out, but I'm not sure how much people listen to him. Truthfully, good luck to you.

Even though I'm very conservative (paleoconservative, just to separate myself from the neocons), I welcome both an increase in acceptance of the 2A AND a health political discourse that is based on reason and not asinine drive-by media soundbites.

Thanks for the input Jelanen. It's nice to see gun-rights advocates from right, left and center having rational discourse and focusing more on what unites them than what separates them. It would be nice if someday the right to own a gun was viewed in the same light as the right to vote, and no one from the either the right or left from the political spectrum in America seriously questions it or debates over it.

You should do some reading on anarchism, Left Libertarianism/Libertarian Socialism-- these are left-wing ideologies very big on personal reponsibility.

[Jelanen]

Originally Posted by Eugene V. Debs

Thanks for the input Jelanen. It's nice to see gun-rights advocates from right, left and center having rational discourse and focusing more on what unites them than what separates them. It would be nice if someday the right to own a gun was viewed in the same light as the right to vote, and no one from the either the right or left from the political spectrum in America seriously questions it or debates over it.

You should do some reading on anarchism, Left Libertarianism/Libertarian Socialism-- these are left-wing ideologies very big on personal reponsibility.

Granted. That may be you, but its certainly not Philadelphia (or Boston, or Providence or any of the other lefty cities I've lived near).

[The Drew]

I know lots of people who used to vote democrat, then at some point when the antigun crowd took over the party they switched their votes to whoever truly supported gun rights.

What you must look at is that real gun people vote their guns first.

I wouldn't expect Blacks to vote for somebody who has voted repeatedly to repeal the emancipation proclamation.... So I don't expect gunowners to vote for people who have repeatedly voted against the 2nd amendment.

If you take away guns and abortion from the political debate in this country... You could have rational and REAL debate on which direction this nation will go. Many votes will change hands if these issues are removed. The question is, how do you remove them from political debate... Even supreme court decisions cannot stop the zealots on either side of these issues... Those zealots need to be removed somehow, their power taken away.

I admit to being a pro gun zealot, but given the removal of the anti's I could focus on other issues first, instead of ruling out candidates by their gun records.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by Jelanen

Granted. That may be you, but its certainly not Philadelphia (or Boston, or Providence or any of the other lefty cities I've lived near).

Perhaps, but I believe that can change. To take a page from Gramsci, it's up to the minority ideology to battle out its ideas in the culture. Culture wars can be won or lost, but from the perspective of a revolutionary (or a reactionary for that matter) they need to be fought.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by The Drew

I know lots of people who used to vote democrat, then at some point when the antigun crowd took over the party they switched their votes to whoever truly supported gun rights.

What you must look at is that real gun people vote their guns first.

I wouldn't expect Blacks to vote for somebody who has voted repeatedly to repeal the emancipation proclamation.... So I don't expect gunowners to vote for people who have repeatedly voted against the 2nd amendment.

If you take away guns and abortion from the political debate in this country... You could have rational and REAL debate on which direction this nation will go. Many votes will change hands if these issues are removed. The question is, how do you remove them from political debate... Even supreme court decisions cannot stop the zealots on either side of these issues... Those zealots need to be removed somehow, their power taken away.

I admit to being a pro gun zealot, but given the removal of the anti's I could focus on other issues first, instead of ruling out candidates by their gun records.

Not sure about abortion, but I truly believe you can take guns out of the debate by building a movement within the American Left that effectively presents the "gun issue" as a "civil liberties issue". All that is necessary is an ideologically principled and tightly organized pro-gun movement on the left. The building blocks are already there (pro-gun Democrats, Trotskyists, anarchists, union members, conservationists/sportsmen, left-leaning centrists/swing voters, left-leaning Libertarians) it's just a matter of organization, program and message.

The American Right has already made up its mind on the issue, split the American Left on gun rights and soon it will cease to be a serious issue in the broader political discourse.

[Siobhra]

Try being Gay and owning guns. You are treated like a leper in the liberal bars and clubs. If you go to a Gay Pride event you hope no one points out that your a gun owner.

The reverse happens at the gun range. (Or on this web site)

You men think it is hard to find a GF who is not anti-gun. Try being a dyke and trying to find a GF who is not an anti.

I make it a point to go to as many of the liberal events I can and point out how much I want to vote for their person but can't because of their stand on guns laws. I tell them that even thow I am both Gay and a Pagan I would still vote for Pat Robinson before I would vote for a gun-grabber. (I would not go that far really)

But it is not 'easy' to vote left when I know the person I am voting for is a bigot who supports banning gay rights. The right of the state to ban Gay Marriage is equal to the right of the state to ban guns. When I vote I have to chose which shark gets to eat me.

If the liberal has no interest in the shooting sports then the choice is easy. Back before I got interested in shooting I would not care who was running for office. Just pull the Democrat Leaver. If the country goes down the tube because of Hillery then so what.

Some of those so-called "wedge" issue's mean a lot to me. And it hurts to vote for someone who hates my rights as much as it would hurt you if you had to vote for a gun-grabber.

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by Siobhra

Try being Gay and owning guns. You are treated like a leper in the liberal bars and clubs. If you go to a Gay Pride event you hope no one points out that your a gun owner.

The reverse happens at the gun range. (Or on this web site)

You men think it is hard to find a GF who is not anti-gun. Try being a dyke and trying to find a GF who is not an anti.

I make it a point to go to as many of the liberal events I can and point out how much I want to vote for their person but can't because of their stand on guns laws. I tell them that even thow I am both Gay and a Pagan I would still vote for Pat Robinson before I would vote for a gun-grabber. (I would not go that far really)

But it is not 'easy' to vote left when I know the person I am voting for is a bigot who supports banning gay rights. The right of the state to ban Gay Marriage is equal to the right of the state to ban guns. When I vote I have to chose which shark gets to eat me.

If the liberal has no interest in the shooting sports then the choice is easy. Back before I got interested in shooting I would not care who was running for office. Just pull the Democrat Leaver. If the country goes down the tube because of Hillery then so what.

Some of those so-called "wedge" issue's mean a lot to me. And it hurts to vote for someone who hates my rights as much as it would hurt you if you had to vote for a gun-grabber.

They mean a lot to me too, but this is precisely why we need a pro-gun organization on the left, so we aren't forced to make these difficult choices. I want gun-control off the table, for the left and right, period.

[Autonomous]

Originally Posted by Siobhra

Try being Gay and owning guns. You are treated like a leper in the liberal bars and clubs. If you go to a Gay Pride event you hope no one points out that your a gun owner.

The reverse happens at the gun range. (Or on this web site)

I make it a point to go to as many of the liberal events I can and point out how much I want to vote for their person but can't because of their stand on guns laws. I tell them that even thow I am both Gay and a Pagan I would still vote for Pat Robinson before I would vote for a gun-grabber. (I would not go that far really)


Some of those so-called "wedge" issue's mean a lot to me. And it hurts to vote for someone who hates my rights as much as it would hurt you if you had to vote for a gun-grabber.

Thank you for being who you are. I have much respect for anyone who not only goes against the grain but stands firm in the face of it. I hope you know there are those of us who stand behind you and are glad you support and stand up for 2nd Amendment rights in the face of massive opposition from your communitys. Sacrifice and struggle are what test who we are...I also wish there was another option for voting...But...
-A
p.s. you seen that Pink Pistol websight...looks like that could be right up your ally...