Shooting at Omaha Mall

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by MarcS

I don't know about the whole trunk gun thing in that situation. Chances are if you get back to your car in the parking lot, enough time has lapsed that heading back in with your AR is going to earn you some friendly fire from the responding police officers.

The situation is you're there, the shots are close and you are in a position to act immediately with what you have on you. No the P32 probably won't cut it. I can take shots at 100 yards on a human size target with my glock 19, no problem. The problems is, can you find appropriate cover in a mall from 7.62x39 and the answer is most likely no. You're going to have to devise a strategy on the spot to close distance an flank because trying to neutralize someone armed with a rifle using your pistol on their terms is a loosing proposition

btw, all the reports i'm reading say SKS.

He was shooting from the 3rd-floor balcony of a department store. It should be possible to get to him from the back. Normally enough cover in a department store. Not much that could protect you, but probably enough to conceal your advance to a distance close enough to get a clean shot in the back.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by Eugene V. Debs

He was shooting from the 3rd-floor balcony of a department store. It should be possible to get to him from the back. Normally enough cover in a department store. Not much that could protect you, but probably enough to conceal your advance to a distance close enough to get a clean shot in the back.

there's a difference, cover is a barrier that can stop bullets. concealment cannot stop bullets. Yes, there is concealment in mall, but seldom anything that will stop rifle fire (maybe if the building uses heavy pylons in its construction, but short of that, no).

as for the specific tactics to use. that can be discussed all night, but I'll just say your best bet is to get relevant professional training so you have these options in your head before you find yourself in a situation (this or any other type)

[Eugene V. Debs]

Originally Posted by MarcS

there's a difference, cover is a barrier that can stop bullets. concealment cannot stop bullets. Yes, there is concealment in mall, but seldom anything that will stop rifle fire (maybe if the building uses heavy pylons in its construction, but short of that, no).

as for the specific tactics to use. that can be discussed all night, but I'll just say your best bet is to get relevant professional training so you have these options in your head before you find yourself in a situation (this or any other type)

Yes, I'm sorry, I meant to say concealment not cover.

[Siobhra]

Watch for 'Copy-Cat' shootings. Be alert.

[Thekatar]

Originally Posted by MarcS

there's a difference, cover is a barrier that can stop bullets. concealment cannot stop bullets. Yes, there is concealment in mall, but seldom anything that will stop rifle fire (maybe if the building uses heavy pylons in its construction, but short of that, no).

as for the specific tactics to use. that can be discussed all night, but I'll just say your best bet is to get relevant professional training so you have these options in your head before you find yourself in a situation (this or any other type)

You must assess your own skill level and how you are armed, among other considerations. If you had a one day NRA class and are carrying a .38 J-Frame you would probably want to reconsider some type of direct action.

OTOH, if you have had numerous hours of professional training, and are armed with a high capacity semi auto and are carrying an extra magazine you have many more options. Even then, your best bet may be to get the hell out. Your cell phone call to 911 is just as crucial, along with any info that you can provide.

These things should be carefully considered by all of us who carry.

[Vortex]

From a slightly different point of view.

Normally I don't watch CNN nor do I watch AC 360, but they were carrying a live feed from Omaha of the Police Chief commenting on the shooting. Following the police news conference was a telephone interview with an eyewitness that hid in a dressing room during the shooting.

Her name has an unusual and unique spelling, so I've added some odd punctuation to keep it from being indexed by search bots. I don't think we need to bring the wrath of CNN down on the PAFOA forums. Here is part of the dialog, transcribed from TIVO.

AC 360 Transcript

HS: H.e_l.e S.p_i_v.a.c_k
AC: A.n_d_e.r.s_o.n C_o_o.p.e_r


HS: . . . . go into the dressing room and go in and get up on the chair, like on the seat and put your feet up.

AC: So no one would see your feet if they came through.

HS: Right. Right. And so I went to the other one [dressing room] and I carry a camera with me, so I took my camera and put it around my neck . . . and I was gonna . . . I thought it maybe would shield me in case he shot me, like, you know in the chest, but also I was hoping that I would eventually use it as a weapon if he came in there, because I was prepared to go after him, if it came to that.

Now if you remove the odd punctuation and google just her name, the leading hits are from the Omaha, NE area. I got the distinct impression of a sheltered, pampered suburbanite (possible activist, see the 6th full paragraph under the September 17, 2003 section) with extreme left leaning tendencies. Of course, I could be completely mistaken about this impression.

Taking this at face value however, the point I'm trying to make is how differently people process unambiguous information. Members of this forum are discussing the limitations of pistol versus rifle, while this woman isn't the least bit embarrassed on national TV to assume rifle caliber ballistic shield properties from her digital camera and at the same time believe that the camera also has offensive capabilities as well.

So the next time you get frustrated arguing with someone about 2nd amendment issues, remember that their frame of reference may be so far removed from any realistic assessment of the situation that the only common ground between you, is that you are both in the same room.

Keep in mind that the quoted text is not taken out of context (check the transcript, near the end) or posted to ridicule this person. She was well spoken and articulate on her views. I do think we can thank Hollywood however, for the perception that a 7.62 x 39 round will magically bounce off of a digital camera and the "lifting your feet up off the floor" move sounds like a gag from a Peter Sellers movie.

The really funny thing is that AC 360 appears to have a "What Were They Thinking" segment. Often times I wonder that about CNN.

[DaveM55]

How about a couple moments of silence and some prayers for those innocent people that were injured and killed.
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Fox News online has this title, "What Drove Young Killer To Commit Mall Slaughter?" Why do they have to give it a new name like Mall Slaughter? It sensationalizes it for the next whack job out there. It was 1st degree murder, ugly and sick! Stop trying to sell this story, just report the facts.

[wboggs]

Yet another example of what you can expect from a Godless society.

[BradC]

Originally Posted by wboggs

Yet another example of what you can expect from a Godless society.

Please, I hope you had sarcasm in there that I missed....

[PAhunter]

Originally Posted by DaveM55

How about a couple moments of silence and some prayers for those innocent people that were injured and killed.

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Amen.
Unfortunately we will never hear these words spoken at the top of the broadcast.

Fox News online has this title, "What Drove Young Killer To Commit Mall Slaughter?" Why do they have to give it a new name like Mall Slaughter? It sensationalizes it for the next whack job out there. It was 1st degree murder, ugly and sick! Stop trying to sell this story, just report the facts.

Sadly, today's newscast is more about program ratings than it is about the facts.
Sensational headlines are what put people in front of their television. The more emotion the newscaster can stir the better he/she is doing their job.


Jack