Do guns *cause* violence?

[awkx]

At a loss for words to explain the anti-gunners' apparent belief that guns actually cause violence? Well, it turns out that there is a name for their type of thinking: it is a belief based on sympathetic magic. Examples of other beliefs based on sympathetic magic include:

• Stabbing a voodoo doll causes pain to the actual person.
• The presence barren woman causes a garden to become barren.
• Eating the heart of defeated warrior imparts his former power.

The anti-2A folks associate handguns with violent crime, and from that association they subconsciously draw a false cause-and-effect relationship.

Credit for this explanation belongs to a commenter at the Volokh Conspiracy.

[DaveM55]

Thanks, all this time I just thought the anti-gun crowd were just ignat morons.

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by awkx

At a loss for words to explain the anti-gunners' apparent belief that guns actually cause violence? Well, it turns out that there is a name for their type of thinking: it is a belief based on sympathetic magic.

Ummm... sorta.

I think you're blurring two distinct things here from that comment over at Volokh. The distinction-- that is, between magical thinking and the belief in sympathetic magic-- is one worth keeping, though.

The original source of the VC comment you cited appeared in an earlier discussion about "zero-tolerance" policies in schools wherein toy guns and even student-drawn pictures of guns are prohibited. It is specifically this belief-- that banning symbols of guns will cause the real guns to "go away"-- that the commenter ascribes to a belief in sympathetic magic.

The impulse to ban guns themselves, though, is not: it, like so much other silly liberal claptrap, is a result of plain old, garden-variety magical thinking. The final paragraph of that comment lays it out:

In the imitation weapon banning context we have first the belief that the object, the actual weapon, is magic and causes those in its presence to behave in an evil manner. The sympathetic magical belief is that by banning the image or the imitation weapon, the magical power of real weapons to cause people to be violent will be lessened, or the real weapons will stay away from the presence of the faithful.

Magical thinking is a hallmark of the liberal intellect. It is intellectual laziness, a failure to sensibly and responsibly connect cause and effect that results from various combinations of stupidity, ignorance, sloth, lousy self-discipline, dishonesty, immaturity and a desire to avoid dealing with unpleasant realities.

Guns cause violence. Entitling poor people to a welfare check each month will stop them from being poor. Banning the "N-word" will end racial hatred. The Kyoto Treaty will end global warming. Racial/gender quotas in hiring and academic admissions will end discrimination. Giving everybody-- including complete, chronic fuckups-- an "A" grade in school will raise their self-esteem and thereby make them smarter. Violent, fanatical, fundamentalist Muslims hopped up on jihad are simply misunderstood and want only to be loved, just like us. Everybody's beautiful in their own way. 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated by Dick Cheney to boost Halliburton's profits. Fire can't melt steel. Western culture, and especially white people, are the cause of all evil. NOLA flooded during Katrina because George Bush planted explosives in the levees to torment black people. Unilateral U.S. nuclear disarmament will make the world a safer place. If enough of us take off our clothes and arrange our naked bodies on some Marin County hillside in the shape of a giant peace sign, world peace will break out. Six million Jews occupying a worthless chunk of land barely the size of New Jersey are to blame for all the ills of the Arab world, with its three hundred million people and most of the world's energy resources. The reason poor countries are poor is because we're so rich. America causes all the misery in the world. Animals are just like people. Plants have emotions. Capitalism is evil, communism is good.

And on and on it goes, yadda yadda yadda, ad nauseum, every bit of it the result of sloppy, magical thinking.

Screw it; I'm goin' to the range and test some handloads...

[Philadelphia]

One good argument I saw recently was in response to the "fire in crowded theatre" view that rights may be reasonably restricted.

It is true that one may be punished for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre when there is no fire.

Banning guns or being overly restrictive with gun regulation because some criminals choose to use guns unlawfully and for savage violence is equivalent to passing a law that requires gagging everyone who wants to walk into a theatre. If the law required that everyone be gagged, nobody would be able to improperty yell fire. Of course if there was a real need to yell fire lawfully, they'd all be stuck in the fire. Same as what they want to do with gun regulations -- restrict everyone so everyone is completely defenseless and more likely to be harmed by criminals in the long run.

It's just as stupid to gag everyone who wants to enter a theatre as it is to restrict law abiding citizens' right to keep and carry guns.

It's already illegal to yell fire in a crowded theatre when there is no fire, just as it's already illegal for criminals to possess or use guns. That's enough regulation.

[Pierce8468]

Of course guns cause violence! Just yesterday I had my 45 sitting on my kitchen counter. A buddy of mine came over, and when he went into the kitchen to grab a beer. My gun got startled by his presence and fired a shot at him. Thank god my gun has poor aim with out me helping and he missed.


Desperation and despare ( if spelled right) are what causes violence in a lot of cases. Hell the media is more to blame then guns are. when you report everyday how the violence is rising in a certain area. What ulimatley happens? You have some young 14 yr old punk say Damn Nigga I gotsa get my arse a burner. So he does, and then he wants to prove that he is not just some bubble gum gangster, and that he is a hard arse. So what does he do he uses his gun to shoot somebody, to prove how hard he is.


OHH I have an idea. Lets go after the drug dealers and get them off the street and reduce a huge amount of violence. Oh no wait that wont work, because that would make sence. What on earth was I thinking. I forgot that the good citizens who dont commit crimes. Are the ones going out buying illegal guns and shooting people.

[DaveM55]

Guns don't cause violence, but when EM's guns talk, they scare me.

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by Dave D.

Guns cause violence. Entitling poor people to a welfare check each month will stop them from being poor. Banning the "N-word" will end racial hatred. The Kyoto Treaty will end global warming. Racial/gender quotas in hiring and academic admissions will end discrimination. Giving everybody-- including complete, chronic fuckups-- an "A" grade in school will raise their self-esteem and thereby make them smarter. Violent, fanatical, fundamentalist Muslims hopped up on jihad are simply misunderstood and want only to be loved, just like us. Everybody's beautiful in their own way. 9/11 was an inside job orchestrated by Dick Cheney to boost Halliburton's profits. Fire can't melt steel. Western culture, and especially white people, are the cause of all evil. NOLA flooded during Katrina because George Bush planted explosives in the levees to torment black people. Unilateral U.S. nuclear disarmament will make the world a safer place. If enough of us take off our clothes and arrange our naked bodies on some Marin County hillside in the shape of a giant peace sign, world peace will break out. Six million Jews occupying a worthless chunk of land barely the size of New Jersey are to blame for all the ills of the Arab world, with its three hundred million people and most of the world's energy resources. The reason poor countries are poor is because we're so rich. America causes all the misery in the world. Animals are just like people. Plants have emotions. Capitalism is evil, communism is good.

I loved this. In fact, I cut and pasted it into an e-mail and sent it around to all my gun and anti gun friends (yes, I still like them besides the fact that they are anti gunners. I'm trying to reform them. Hence the e-mail.) Hope you don't mind (if you do, it is kind of late now ). But your comments are on their way around the wonderful world of the internet. I just thought they were worth sharing.

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

I loved this. In fact, I cut and pasted it into an e-mail and sent it around to all my gun and anti gun friends (yes, I still like them besides the fact that they are anti gunners. I'm trying to reform them. Hence the e-mail.) Hope you don't mind (if you do, it is kind of late now ). But your comments are on their way around the wonderful world of the internet. I just thought they were worth sharing.

I don't mind at all; thanks, I'll consider it an honor..

The range at SGL43 (French Creek) was a total MADHOUSE. I'll be damn glad when all the once-a-year gunmen get their deerpoppers sighted in and leave us lazy, paper-punching fudds to do our thing in peace. Yikes, what a zoo!!

The handload testing went perfect-- so good, that I doubt I'll ever use factory ammunition again unless I have no other choice. WAYYYY better than the stuff in the green and white box, and even better than the stuff in the green and yellow box. When homemade .223 Rem at $0.18 a pop does better than Remington Premier Match at $1.15 a pop, I know which one I'll take.