Corporate Firearms Policy

[Evolution]

My company has the following policy:

Carrying a firearm and/or weapon onto Company property in violation of this Policy will be considered an act of criminal trespass and will be grounds for immediate removal from the Company property, and may cause the Company to refer the matter to the state and/or local police.

Can they actually charge you with criminal trespass if your have a valid permit in Pennsylvania without asking you to leave? I was under the assumption that it isn't tresspasing until you refuse to leave the premises. I am under the impresion that no policy is above state law. I was told on another forum that they could basically charge me with whatever they want to...

Thoughts?

[ReefBlue]

I wouldn't think they could charge you with trespass. They could simply fire you on the spot for violating a company policy.

[Evolution]

That is what I thought as well. I have people on this other forum saying if I sign a handbook they can do whatever they want. I personally do not see how that would be possible. If any store had a policy stamped on their door and I choose to ignore it. They can ask me to leave. If I refuse then I would be considered trespassing. I do not see how it would differ regardless of employment status. Maybe I am wrong...

[KLiQ]

Your signature in your employee handbook states you understand company policy -

I don't think you would get tresspassing charges - but they will certainly fire you

Besides PA is an At Will State for employment - unless you are union you can be fired for any reason - as long as it's non-discriminatory

[Evolution]

I understand I may be charged for trespassing, if they really wanted to pursue it, due to the fact I was preinformed of their policy. I just don't understand where they are getting I can be charged as criminal trespass....

[Philadelphia]

Doesn't the sign already ask you to leave?

I honestly have no idea but it would make sense.

As for criminal versus civil trespass, if they ask you to leave and you refuse, you have committed the crime of criminal trespass.

The only issue is do they actually have to ask you to leave, or does the sign do the job.

I'd tend to think the sign does the job.

[Evolution]

but criminal trespass is explained like this:

Trespass to commict another crime. Such as I trespass on your yard to steal your mail. That would be criminal trespassing. If I am just on your yard and you told me not to be there it is considered straight trespassing.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

I'd tend to think the sign does the job.

The sign does not do the job, as signs carry no legal weight in PA. A "No Firearms" sign, although signaling the intent of the property owner/manager, does not implicitly charge the firearm carrier with criminal trespass. One must be asked to leave by the property owner/manager first, and is charged with criminal trespass only if they do not comply.

However, as others have mentioned all of this is academic when talking about an employer, assuming one's job is Priority #1. PA being an At Will state allows an employer to fire someone on the spot for just about anything anyway.

[Steve in PA]

The company's policy does not translate to criminal trespass;

§ 3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under paragraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection: "Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking, intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through an opening not designed for human access.

If asked to leave and you refuse, it is defiant trespass.....NOT criminal trespass;

(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.


As the other poster said, the "no firearms" signs mean nothing. No firearms does not mean no trespassing. The company is using scare tactics to scare its employees into obeying their policy.

[Evolution]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

The company's policy does not translate to criminal trespass;

§ 3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under paragraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection: "Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking, intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through an opening not designed for human access.

If asked to leave and you refuse, it is defiant trespass.....NOT criminal trespass;

(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.


As the other poster said, the "no firearms" signs mean nothing. No firearms does not mean no trespassing. The company is using scare tactics to scare its employees into obeying their policy.

Thank you for clarifying that for me steve. That is basically what I have been looking for and assumed. I really wanted to see other peoples take on the situation. May I ask you the source or for a link to the source of that info for future refrence?