Drawing gun to defend property

[bellae]

This was in my local newspaper. I thought a gun could only be drawn if it was clear you were in threat of serious bodily injury even in the defense of your home/property. From the article (which I know probably didn't give all the details), it didn't sound like there was justification to draw a pistol. Just wanted to get other peoples thoughts.


Butler Eagle
Article published November 17, 2007

Man cleared in signs action
Gun pointed at suspect

CLINTON TWP — State police say a former candidate for township supervisor did nothing wrong by using a gun to detain another township man allegedly caught in the act of stealing campaign signs.
Trooper Frank Cichra said Arthur Biernesser did not violate any laws on Oct. 27 when he held Matthew Buss at gunpoint until police arrived.
"I haven't talked to him (Biernesser) about the remote possibility of him being charged," Cichra said.
Cichra said Biernesser was protecting his property, the campaign signs and himself as he didn't know if Buss possessed any weapons.
Biernesser agreed, saying he was unsure whether Buss had a gun at the time.
"He was reaching into his back pocket," Biernesser said. "I thought he was going for a gun."
Biernesser said if Buss and Kenneth Vierling, the other township man charged with attempting to steal the campaign signs, were bold enough to go on private property to steal signs, what else were they capable of doing.
Buss, 20, is charged with theft, receiving stolen property, loitering and prowling at night, criminal mischief, possessing instruments of crime, and criminal conspiracy. Vierling, 23, is charged with receiving stolen property, criminal mischief and criminal conspiracy.
Vierling is accused of driving a pickup truck while Buss was allegedly pulling the signs out of the ground to throw into the vehicle.
Having had his signs stolen previously, Biernesser had been waiting in his pickup the night of Oct. 26 to catch people doing it again. Seeing Buss grabbing the signs on Biernesser's property at the intersection of Route 228 and Saxonburg Boulevard, Biernesser chased him down the road.
Buss stopped when Biernesser confronted him about 12:30 a.m. Oct. 27. Buss claims Biernesser threatened him while waiting for police to arrive.
"At the time, I was pretty intimidated," Buss said.
Biernesser denies threatening Buss with the .380-caliber pistol.
"No. Absolutely not," Biernesser said.
Cichra said Buss did not state that night that Biernesser had threatened him. When Buss and Vierling later tried to make a case of Biernesser making terroristic threats, Cichra attempted to get them to write statements. They refused, Cichra said.
Vierling claims Biernesser pushed Buss to the ground and put the gun to Buss' head before pointing the pistol at Vierling as he passed by in his vehicle.
Although Vierling didn't stop, he later returned when police had Buss call him back to the scene.
Both Buss and Vierling admitted they were wrong to steal the signs, but said Biernesser overreacted by using a gun.
Biernesser disagrees.
"I have the right to bear arms, and I have the right to protect my property," he said.
Buss and Vierling's preliminary hearing will be Nov. 26 before District Judge Sue Haggerty in Saxonburg.

[Thekatar]

Sounds like absolute stupidity by both parties. The guy holding them at gunpoint may be politically connected with the local cops.

[Nate]

wow! that guy's lucky! I wouldn't try that.

[gf45acp]

While slightly off topic, one of the things that gets me with things like this is where the political signs end up. I am in a private community here in Pa, but in NJ I had people putting up signs on my property without my consent every election. I took them down and disposed of them. We do the same where I work. Was the private property that these signs where stolen from owned by the candidate? Where the signs there with permission of the private property owner?

[PhillyGunOwner]

I hate to admit this, but right after the election polls closed at 8:00pm on Nov 6, I went around and collected a bunch of the old election signs on the side of the road that is public property.

Just in case some of you don't know, they make excellent target holders. All you have to do is turn them inside out so the printed side doesn't show. You can mount a piece of cardboard on them and stick-em in the ground. I guess I'd better stop doing that.

PS
I only took the signs of people I voted for, could it be considered a quid pro quo?

Best!

[tes151]

Originally Posted by Thekatar

Sounds like absolute stupidity by both parties. The guy holding them at gunpoint may be politically connected with the local cops.

Really? Come on my property ( not you personally ) and let me catch you stealing or vandalizing something and see what you wind up looking down. I don't feel obligated to allow common trash to steal or wreck what I've worked hard to have. Just my opinion.

[Thekatar]

Originally Posted by tes151

Really? Come on my property ( not you personally ) and let me catch you stealing or vandalizing something and see what you wind up looking down. I don't feel obligated to allow common trash to steal or wreck what I've worked hard to have. Just my opinion.

So you are willing to kill someone if they come on your grass and take a campaign sign?

Hmmm... sounds different when I phrase it that way, doesn't it.

[PhillyGunOwner]

Originally Posted by Thekatar

So you are willing to kill someone if they come on your grass and take a campaign sign?

Hmmm... sounds different when I phrase it that way, doesn't it.

Whew! I think I'll stick to picking up election signs in Thekatars neighborhood. If you see someone wearing a PAFOA tee-shirt picking up election signs, don't shoot, it's just me. I'm too cheap to buy some decent target holders.

[Frenchy]

There are still election signs in my area, Odd when I see them, cause in Quebec, the political party have 48 hours to pick them up or they pay a fine for every sign picked up after that, the smaller grass signs we see every where are $100 each, plywood up to 4X8 $500 and billboards over $1000. Believe me, they dont stay too long.

[Thekatar]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

There are still election signs in my area, Odd when I see them, cause in Quebec, the political party have 48 hours to pick them up or they pay a fine for every sign picked up after that, the smaller grass signs we see every where are $100 each, plywood up to 4X8 $500 and billboards over $1000. Believe me, they dont stay too long.

I am all for that system.