Gun Manners

[TotalNewbie]

Thanks Grizz for posting these rules. I pretty much knew the rules that deal with safety , but some of the rules that deal with manners I never really thought about.

[TotalNewbie]

Originally Posted by GRIZZLYBEAR

7. If unfamiliar with the operation of a particular firearm, ask the owner to demonstrate and to "show clear" before you handle it.

Actually, I wanted to ask the shooting community about this rule a long time ago.

In the first NRA course that I took before I started shooting, pretty much all the rules seemed to make sense. I've spend a good deal time my professional life in a setting where safety is paramount, so I am a very safety-oriented person, and thus I took to the gun safety rules like fish to water. But one rule kind of shocked me. To the question: "When you wish to use a gun with which you are not familiar, what is the proper way of finding the correct way of using the firearm?" the correct answer was in effect: "ask the possessor". To me the appropriate answer to a consult some written material, such as the owner's manual or some user's guide, which the NRA identified as the wrong answer. During my professional life, whenever I, or people who work with me, encounter a new situation or an instrument or a machine, the answer has always been to consult the law, regulations, handbooks, manuals, checklists, or punchlists, and not to rely on the knowledge, expertise, or interest of a person who is alegedly more familar with the situation/machine.

When you check out a new gun on which you have not been trained, do you really simply ask the owner/possessor, or do you read the manual? Do you agree with the NRA's opinion on this issue?

[DPB]

GrizzlyBear, excellent post. With some of the stuff you've posted lately, you are in my "must read" column.

TotalNewbie, while your instinct to check written material is not fundamentally wrong, but there are several reasons "Ask the owner" is a more correct answer.

Most shooters I know do not carry their owner's manuals around with them. I'm sure somewhere in my posessions is a rather large pile of manuals for guns I own or used to own, but I don't haul them around. In a great many cases, I suspect that owners of the weapons have lost or discarded the manuals. So, in many cases, there is no document available to reference.

If you look through most owners manuals, they are not exactly high quality technical documents. I suspect this is for liability purposes, but most semi serious shooters will be able to explain more in two minutes than you will learn reading the manual. In most cases, the only useful information in the manual is the schematic, which is useful after you do a detail strip and fire a spring or pin across the room, it tells you which part you need to order.

As far as other documentation, good luck. You can walk into Barnes and Noble and find book on how to rebuild a Chevy small block, bake a cake, climb a mountain, re-wire your house, or conduct underwater photography, but if you want to detail strip a Browning High Power or re-barrel an AR-15, good luck. For whatever reason, be it prejudice or (again) liability, decent firearms literature is generally difficult to obtain from a public vendor.

Finally, while techniques for operating various firearms may be different, the safety rules are both universal, and simple. I suspect the situations you have experience with were neither. With firearms, you follow the same safety rules whether you are shooting a skeet gun, a snubnose revolver, or a machine gun.

As far as simplicity, it amazes me how many people think that operating a firearm will overload their senses. You drive a car, right. Could you explain all of the safety rules and rules of etiquette of driving in a paragraph as long as GrizzlyBears first post? How many operational controls does a car have? A revolver has two. A pump shogun has three. A Glock has three. A MAG 58 General Purpose Machine Gun (M240) has . . . three.

My point being, while a few specifics may vary, safely operating a firearm is significantly less complex, and much easier to do safely, than actually driving to the range.

Hope this helps.

doug

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by TotalNewbie

Actually, I wanted to ask the shooting community about this rule a long time ago.

In the first NRA course that I took before I started shooting, pretty much all the rules seemed to make sense. I've spend a good deal time my professional life in a setting where safety is paramount, so I am a very safety-oriented person, and thus I took to the gun safety rules like fish to water. But one rule kind of shocked me. To the question: "When you wish to use a gun with which you are not familiar, what is the proper way of finding the correct way of using the firearm?" the correct answer was in effect: "ask the possessor". To me the appropriate answer to a consult some written material, such as the owner's manual or some user's guide, which the NRA identified as the wrong answer. During my professional life, whenever I, or people who work with me, encounter a new situation or an instrument or a machine, the answer has always been to consult the law, regulations, handbooks, manuals, checklists, or punchlists, and not to rely on the knowledge, expertise, or interest of a person who is alegedly more familar with the situation/machine.

When you check out a new gun on which you have not been trained, do you really simply ask the owner/possessor, or do you read the manual? Do you agree with the NRA's opinion on this issue?

This may sound a bit rough, but basically, its true the manual rarely follows the gun, second, the manual will not dislike you for rubbing the finish off its gun.
Althou the manual will give you the technical aspects of a gun, they will not be able to tell you the habbits and qwerks of a specific gun. IE: on my Smith & wesson, if you drop the crane once, I look at you very sternly say this is not the proper way of doing it, if you do it 2 X this very long arm might come out of no where and slap the back of your head.. Once the gun is empty of course
The Smith & wesson book and the Ruger book are very similar, about 5 pages of legal mimbo jumbo that say shoot the proper ammo, dont point it at unwanted targets, have fun.. Nothing on the cleaning of, the maintaining of, or any specifics of the gun. None of them talk about the stern looks and or the long arm.
Generally, if i know you never shot a specific gun i own, I will give a basics on it, then if I see you are not familiar with firearms in general, I will give a basics of firearms. Not that i am an instructor, but i want you to play safely and have fun. The most important part of the Smith & Wesson booklet i took out of it is the have fun part. "Enjoy your Smith & Wesson"
And i try to have every one who uses it do just that.

Most gun manuals are so generic, they dont give the actual caliber or model on them. I suppose the next question is... What about the new owner? he has no experiance with the gun, how can he give some?
When you buy a gun, you should do so from a store or smith that knows his product, he should be able to show you how to detail strip, the proper products for cleaning and so on. the Querks of the gun you learn on your own, will it feel lead only bullets, will it misfeed on certain amo... that cant be said in most manuels...

[GRIZZLYBEAR]

Originally Posted by TotalNewbie

Actually, I wanted to ask the shooting community about this rule a long time ago.

In the first NRA course that I took before I started shooting, pretty much all the rules seemed to make sense. I've spend a good deal time my professional life in a setting where safety is paramount, so I am a very safety-oriented person, and thus I took to the gun safety rules like fish to water. But one rule kind of shocked me. To the question: "When you wish to use a gun with which you are not familiar, what is the proper way of finding the correct way of using the firearm?" the correct answer was in effect: "ask the possessor". To me the appropriate answer to a consult some written material, such as the owner's manual or some user's guide, which the NRA identified as the wrong answer. During my professional life, whenever I, or people who work with me, encounter a new situation or an instrument or a machine, the answer has always been to consult the law, regulations, handbooks, manuals, checklists, or punchlists, and not to rely on the knowledge, expertise, or interest of a person who is alegedly more familar with the situation/machine.

When you check out a new gun on which you have not been trained, do you really simply ask the owner/possessor, or do you read the manual? Do you agree with the NRA's opinion on this issue?

Total Newbie:

The information that both Frenchy and BPD pretty well answered your question.

When you go into a Gun Shop and are considering the purchase of any firearm that you are unfamiliar with ask the salesperson any questions that you have on the operation, cleaning, or warranty, take down or anything else comes to mind. I have stood on the other side of the counter and there is no sure such thing a stupid question.

Speaking for myself and most shooters that I know, when at the firing range we are willing to assist anyone who needs help and to answer questions. If you know some "gun people" I am sure they would also be willing to help you out.

I also volunteer my time and the use some off my firearms when we have a "kids" day at a couple of shooting clubs I belong to. We have bows and arrows, rifles, and pistols along with the ammo available for any child in a certain age group to shoot. At each station we will go through the safety and operation of the specific firearm and are responsible for any all range safety and supervise all shooting. All the children will receive some sort of a giveaway at each station. I can't think of a better way to spend a Saturday or Sunday than introducing children that want to learn the joys of shooting.

grizz

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by kimbercdp

Please explain #8, why should this not be done. Thanks.

When you drop a slide on an empty chamber in an autoloader (semi-auto) it will screw up the trigger job and may require gunsmithing, as there is no round being fed into the chamber to "cushion" the spring's weight being pulled back.


When you spin and flip a revolver's cylinder in to lock it in like in Hollywood, you get all sorts of nasty stuff including timing issues.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by MiniDevil

When you drop a slide on an empty chamber in an autoloader (semi-auto) it will screw up the trigger job and may require gunsmithing, as there is no round being fed into the chamber to "cushion" the spring's weight being pulled back.


When you spin and flip a revolver's cylinder in to lock it in like in Hollywood, you get all sorts of nasty stuff including timing issues.

HEY! Get your own answers you sound like me, On the revolver as the timing has to do with the cylinder, you are right, but on the pistol it does not affect the trigger, only the peaning of the "breach" or part of the gun where the bullet would normally act as a spacer to prevent the two pieces of metal to slam into one an other.

[exceltoexcel]

Originally Posted by TotalNewbie

Actually, I wanted to ask the shooting community about this rule a long time ago.

In the first NRA course that I took before I started shooting, pretty much all the rules seemed to make sense. I've spend a good deal time my professional life in a setting where safety is paramount, so I am a very safety-oriented person, and thus I took to the gun safety rules like fish to water. But one rule kind of shocked me. To the question: "When you wish to use a gun with which you are not familiar, what is the proper way of finding the correct way of using the firearm?" the correct answer was in effect: "ask the possessor". To me the appropriate answer to a consult some written material, such as the owner's manual or some user's guide, which the NRA identified as the wrong answer. During my professional life, whenever I, or people who work with me, encounter a new situation or an instrument or a machine, the answer has always been to consult the law, regulations, handbooks, manuals, checklists, or punchlists, and not to rely on the knowledge, expertise, or interest of a person who is alegedly more familar with the situation/machine.

When you check out a new gun on which you have not been trained, do you really simply ask the owner/possessor, or do you read the manual? Do you agree with the NRA's opinion on this issue?

I follow your thoughts here, now I'll tell you why the manual isn't the right answer, textbook style.

The gun might have been modified!

Shorter trigger pull, different sights, a few other modifications then what came with the stock gun. Therefore, if you operate it like the manual says, you might end up hurting yourself, or others. That's why you ask the owner, on top of the whole he'll smack you in the back of the head thing.

[MiniDevil]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

HEY! Get your own answers you sound like me, On the revolver as the timing has to do with the cylinder, you are right, but on the pistol it does not affect the trigger, only the peaning of the "breach" or part of the gun where the bullet would normally act as a spacer to prevent the two pieces of metal to slam into one an other.

I'm not sure about other semi autos but on 1911s if you drop the slide on an empty chamber, the trigger job is messed up as well.

[GRoPA]

Nice one Grizz. This would be a good article for the site newsletter, if it comes out.