MAJOR black eye for all of us

[dgg9]

If this happened as written (a big assumption), then the CCW holder is culpable...although notice how the headline subtly misleads you into thinking the gun brandishing happened as a direct and proximate result of a verbal "soccer dad rage" argument, as opposed to the end stage of a physical altercation.


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/15832557.htm


Gun at pee-wee football: Sad lesson

Wayne Derkotch is charged with brandishing a .357 Magnum in a fight with a coach over his son's playing time. A referee also was arrested for his role in the incident.

By Natalie Pompilio
Inquirer Staff Writer

A clear Sunday morning in Burholme Park. Two teams of eager 5- and 6-year-olds gathered around learning to play football.

Instead, they received a lesson in life's ugliness: a coach and father fighting over a child's playing time, an angry loser wielding a .357 Magnum at a pee-wee football game.

With the weapon came shouts of "Gun! Gun! Gun!" - and a game dissolved into chaos.

Referee Shawn Henwood shouted for the players to "Come with me!" and they did, following him from the 50-yard line to the far side of the field, then crouching. Screaming mothers rushed toward them. On the sidelines, two men had been fighting, and one had pulled out the loaded handgun.

"Football pads don't stop bullets. They're not made for it," said Henwood, 39. "I think it's disgusting. The whole confrontation. The coach beating up a parent? The parent pulling a gun?"

The blowup between adults at the children's game occurred around 10:30 a.m. at the park in the 7300 block of Central Avenue in Northeast Philadelphia. Henwood and police gave the following version of events:

Parent Wayne Derkotch, 40, began arguing with the coach of the Northeast Outlaws because he felt his son wasn't getting enough playing time. The argument escalated into a physical fight. Derkotch pulled a .357 Magnum revolver from his waistband, an action witnessed by others at the game.

As parents scrambled to protect their children and other spectators dialed 911, Derkotch walked to his black pickup truck, put the gun inside, and then climbed into the cab as if to leave.

Seeing this, Henwood ran in front of the truck, blocking its exit, and began writing its license plate number in his game book. A man Henwood identified as Derkotch's brother slapped it out of his hand. Henwood said that he refused to let the truck pass and that Derkotch's brother did not like that.

"He came at my throat, and I struck him," Henwood said. "It was so unreal. I guess I snapped."

By then, police had arrived. They arrested Derkotch, of the 1100 block of East Wilt Street, and Henwood, of the 7600 block of Brous Street. Derkotch was charged with aggravated assault, simple assault, and recklessly endangering another person. He was released on $10,000 bail. Henwood was charged with simple assault and released yesterday morning on his own recognizance.

Henwood said he spoke to Derkotch while both were in custody. Derkotch, he said, apologized for the incident.

"I said, 'You don't have to apologize to me. I didn't have kids on the field,' " Henwood said.

As Derkotch told Henwood, Derkotch had been arguing with the coach when the coach told him to take it to the side so they could "settle this like men." Both knew that meant a fight.

When the coach gained the advantage in the fight, Derkotch pulled his gun. He had had a license to carry a concealed weapon for eight years, he told Henwood.

"He should've put it back in the truck," Henwood said. "That's how men do it. That's how they used to do it."

Derkotch could not be reached for comment yesterday.

Parents behaving badly at children's sporting events is not new: On its Web site, the National Youth Sports Safety Foundation notes that incidents of parental rage are well-documented and increasing. They include fights as well as taunting, yelling, and using profane language or gestures.

In March 2005, a Connecticut man was arrested after striking his daughter's softball coach in the head with an aluminum bat. He pleaded no contest last month and received a sentence that did not include prison time, which outraged some parents and coaches.

Perhaps the most infamous incident occurred after a Massachusetts youth hockey game in 2000, when two fathers began arguing about rough play on the ice. One man died and the other was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to six to 10 years in prison.

And it's not just an American problem. In March, a Canadian man was sentenced to eight years in prison for drugging his children's tennis rivals, resulting in the death of one of them.

This summer, Australian media reported at least three instances where parents came to blows with other parents or officials at children's sporting events. In another case, the father of one soccer player was threatened with a lifetime ban after threatening one of his son's 11-year-old opponents.

[billamj]

While some may take it as a black eye for all of us, I think that most reasonable people would say that the problem was Wayne Derkotch, not the rest of us. The way to make sure that WE do not get a black eye from something like this is for anyone of us who is spoken to about this situation to decry Mr. Derkotch and his actions. If we sit idly by and do not state blatantly that we feel he stepped way over the line, then we will get a black eye and we will deserve it. We have to point out what the responsible thing to do would have been, to walk away from the argument, rather than the method that was used. Just my two cents.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by billamj

While some may take it as a black eye for all of us, I think that most reasonable people would say that the problem was Wayne Derkotch, not the rest of us.

Sadly, demagoguery does not work that way. Anti-gun politicians only need a few anecdotes to "prove" that the average guy is not safe to CCW, since "as we all know" there will be shootouts at the local soccer game.

If it NEVER happens, then you can refute that charge easily. If it happens, then you're reduced to the much, much weaker, defensive-sounding line of "well, permit holders are statistically" very safe, which is a poor soundbite.

The point is that statistics have a weak hold in most people's minds. A recent, lurid headline will always displace the stats.

[danp]

I don't think it's a black eye on anyone except the idiot who acted like one.

However there is a gem of wisdom in that article:

Originally Posted by dgg9

When the coach gained the advantage in the fight, Derkotch pulled his gun. He had had a license to carry a concealed weapon for eight years, he told Henwood.

"He should've put it back in the truck," Henwood said. "That's how men do it. That's how they used to do it."

I've long said that the lack of good, old-fashioned fair fights causes a lot of the murders we see today. Sometimes people need to settle things physically, in the old days it seems like you threw a few punches, someone went home the loser and it ended there. Now a days it's guns, knives, and revenge over the silliest things.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by danp

I don't think it's a black eye on anyone except the idiot who acted like one.

I'll bet any amount of money that this incident will be a highly utilized soundbite, to be used in some way against city CCW holders. This will be useful guilt-by-association for the anti's. This kind of event is EXACTLY what they drool over.

Mark my words.

[Buckmark.35]

Originally Posted by dgg9

I'll bet any amount of money that this incident will be a highly utilized soundbite, to be used in some way against city CCW holders. This will be useful guilt-by-association for the anti's. This kind of event is EXACTLY what they drool over.

Mark my words.

Consider those words marked. It would have been better for us if this guy had not had CCW. Unfortunately, since he's legal and apparently crazy, anti's are going to project this image onto all of us. Don't underestimate the nuclear capabilities of one isolated incident. This has butterfly effect written all over it.

[ChamberedRound]

Unfortunately, for every person out there that thinks this was a guy who acted inappropriately and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, there's one person (or more) who are going to categorize him as a "gun nut" and stereotype all responsible gun owners as such.

No politician is going to do anything about it right now, not with an election on the horizon. However, it's our civic responsibility to make sure we vote as many gun rights supporters and 2A advocates into office as possible. The last legislative session showed us that most people in PA, and their currently elected representatives, still care about preserving these rights. However, if the political landscape changes in Harrisburg, all the good or bad incidents in the world won't matter, because the people in question would go after the guns anyway.

Given what's going on at the national and state level, I don't think people understand how important this election is, or the upcoming 2008 election for that matter. Many gun rights supporters in PA are in jeopardy of losing their seats in the State Assembly, and we need to prevent this. In addition, there are other new candidates who are trying to get elected so they can do their part to uphold our freedoms. Make sure you know your candidate's stances on gun rights, and vote for those that support your views. This means more than just emailing them and asking, as a candidate will say anything to get elected. Call them, talk with them, make them convince you. If they're an incumbent, look at their voting record. Go to the polls and vote; don't assume someone else is going to do it; that attitude brings about the gradual loss of our freedoms.

The assault on our 2A and PA Constitution Article 21 rights will begin if the makeup of the State Assembly changes, that is almost certain.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

Unfortunately, for every person out there that thinks this was a guy who acted inappropriately and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, there's one person (or more) who are going to categorize him as a "gun nut" and stereotype all responsible gun owners as such.

If I were of the conspiracy theory mindset, I would suspect this as being an HCI/Brady "false flag" op, being so close to election time.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by dgg9

If I were of the conspiracy theory mindset, I would suspect this as being an HCI/Brady "false flag" op, being so close to election time.

Never thought about that angle, but I wouldn't put it past 'em, especially after getting SPANKED in the Committee of the Whole and the last legislative session.

[Frenchy]

LETS look at this the way its written here.

As Derkotch told Henwood, Derkotch had been arguing with the coach when the coach told him to take it to the side so they could "settle this like men." Both knew that meant a fight.
When the coach gained the advantage in the fight, Derkotch pulled his gun. He had had a license to carry a concealed weapon for eight years, he told Henwood.
Derkotch walked to his black pickup truck, put the gun inside, and then climbed into the cab as if to leave...

first off, the man with the gun ( parent Derkotch) did not shoot any one, he had an altercation with a coach. He did not pull his gun to say your going to have my son play, did not menace his agressor, because yes we see here when the coach told him to take it to the side so they could "settle this like men" the coach is the agressor, put the fight into action. At this time, does not matter what the gun owner does, he has to get off the field at some point, and the coach already told him once there there would be a fight.
When the coach gained the advantage in the fight, Derkotch pulled his gun. so what about the rest of you? you would of sat there and let him beat you to a pulp? This is exactly why people have a CCW to protect themselves in case of an altercation! Its called self defence, he did not say to the coach lets go shoot it out, he did not say any thing from what i can read here, the coach on the other hand invited him to the side where he could fight "like a man"...
Derkotch walked to his black pickup truck, put the gun inside, and then climbed into the cab as if to leave.
This to me says "Ok coach, you had your fight, you won... now let me go back to my business because I am a responsable person, I was trying to go home so that I would not get in trouble, but you followed me off the field where you already told me you wanted to fight! Now i stopped your agression and like the responsable person I am, I will not shoot you in revenge, I will goto my truck and leave.."

Seeing this, Henwood (umpire) ran in front of the truck, blocking its exit, and began writing its license plate number in his game book. A man Henwood identified as Derkotch's brother slapped it out of his hand. Henwood said that he refused to let the truck pass and that Derkotch's brother did not like that.

Good ol take the law into your hands, the umpire runs in front of the truck and takes the plate number... This is a also called a Vigelante.. someone who takes enforcement of law or moral code into his or her own hands. Does the ump have a right to stop you from leaving the field? Nope, Is he a superhero? Nope, but did he stop some one from rightfully leaving an altercation? Yup!
This to me is a simple case of selfe defence, the father did not shoot any one, he was trying to drive away not hitting any one, did not shoot or run over any one, even the ump when he blocked him off. I dont know guys, but I believe this is what most of us would of done. From watching kids play ball from time to time, I know the Coach is often more hot headed then any parent out there. As Judge Judy would say, Its the coach who invited this fight, not the parent, there is no sign the parent did any thing but protect himself then try to leave to stop any further problems.

Of course there may be more that happened then what we see here, but what I read here, this is a classic case of coach gone whacko and self defence.
Naturally, since there are not many cases where violance is shown where the coach is the instigator, lets talk about the ones where parents are the BG, Canada and Australia ...