MAJOR black eye for all of us

[The Drew]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

Last, we can debate the points of what happened all day. Fact of the matter is, Derkotch drew down on a man who was NOT threatening his life, after instigating the situation himself. Sorry, but that just doesn't sit well with me.

Actually you don't know what he felt on the recieving end of that beating. The law says that you only have to fear for your life or major bodily injury here in PA. And that is sufficient reason to draw and shoot. If the coach came unhinged while beating Derkotch, maybe he thought the only way he wasn't going to the hospital was to draw his weapon.

It doesn't matter who started the argument, the coach was the clear aggressor in starting the physical confrontation since he invited him to "settle it like men". And then apparently it took the drawing of a firearm to end the beating. Let's not forget the story of the dad and coach where there was a fist fight and one (I think the coach) ended up dead. A fist fight can turn deadly in an instant.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by The Drew

It doesn't matter who started the argument,

Unfortunately it does, legally. And the fist fight was consensual, which goes a long way towards removing the self defense argument.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by The Drew

Actually you don't know what he felt on the recieving end of that beating. The law says that you only have to fear for your life or major bodily injury here in PA. And that is sufficient reason to draw and shoot. If the coach came unhinged while beating Derkotch, maybe he thought the only way he wasn't going to the hospital was to draw his weapon.

It doesn't matter who started the argument, the coach was the clear aggressor in starting the physical confrontation since he invited him to "settle it like men". And then apparently it took the drawing of a firearm to end the beating. Let's not forget the story of the dad and coach where there was a fist fight and one (I think the coach) ended up dead. A fist fight can turn deadly in an instant.

All fair points that I can't really argue for lack of information. But like I said, Derkotch's intent still doesn't sit well with me.

[Farbmeister]

I've read the thread and cannot agree more with the CCW pulling to protect himself.. thats why we have CCW... self defense. Having the state of mind to draw is one that few have. How many CCW's go down because they hesitate in that split second decision. The CCW did not instigate the fight (heckeling is not a valid reason to assault and batter someone) and did protect himself.. using the degree of force required to mitigate the situation. If he would have pulled the trigger than we are in a whole new arena.

Since the article is light on prefight details no one can say if the 'heckling' was inflamitory or not. Just that the parent was not happy with the time that his kid got playing.

Whats more disturbing is that everyone went nuts and the umpire decided to be a hero.

Nothing will come of this. Maybe a fine... but the coach has more to worry about from a civil standpoint than the parent from a criminal one.

Didn't some lady KILL a competitor in a beauty pagent few years ago so her kid would win? We still have pagents....

[Archiver]

Are even the facts correct? Is press reporting what happened correctly?
First the coach is an idiot wanting to start a fistfight in the first place....great example of sportmanship there. Maybe the parent WAS retreating and assulted by the coach? Why wasnt the COACH charged with something?
Maybe even THIS is what happened.....the gun FELL or was ripped by the coach in the ensuing struggle. The Parent picked up the gun which appeared to be brandishing to panicing parents....and he immediately retreated and brought it to his truck where it and he was safe from the coach. Who said was he "climbed into the cab as if to leave.
?"
The REF is an idiot too. I fully endorse getting the plate and reporting it to the Police. Thats not a vigilante...but a good citizen. There can be no doubt that the REF acted stupidly ...since there is no front plate to read he clearly jumped in front of a VEHICLE driven by a man who was allegedly waving a gun?????? WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!!

[TotalNewbie]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Gun at pee-wee football: Sad lesson
....

By Natalie Pompilio
Inquirer Staff Writer
...
As Derkotch told Henwood, Derkotch had been arguing with the coach when the coach told him to take it to the side so they could "settle this like men." Both knew that meant a fight.

When the coach gained the advantage in the fight, Derkotch pulled his gun. He had had a license to carry a concealed weapon for eight years, he told Henwood.

I read the thread so far, but to me, the issue is much more basic: are these guys for real?

First of all, a parent arguing with a coach? Isn't the coach just a volunteer, and the only authority who goes on the field? Two of my kids (6 and 8 y.o.) play soccer, and I would never dream questioning any decision that a coach does when it comes to his call of what is going on on the field. As a parent, it is my duty to support coaches decision. If a parent really wants to have an input into the decision what should or should not go on the field, he can volunteer to be the coaches assistant, and work with the coach instead of questioning the coach's decisions.

Second of all, calling someone out for a fight? And the other guy agreeing to it? Are these guys like high school students? I don't think I ever heard anyone over the age of 20 say such a thing in real life. I could not imagine this going on in front of my kids.

And to "settle it like men"? Like in the Old West? Who in today's society of sexual harassement lawsuits would ever say such a thing?

These guys need to grow up, and act like grown up in 21st century, and cooperate in outscoring the other team.

The gun is the least of these guys' problems....

[The Drew]

The bottom line here is that there is a serious lack of information that would allow us to make an informed decision as to whether Derkotch was justified in drawing the gun. It could really go either way depending on interpretation.

[DPB]

I tend to agree that there is too little information available to pass judgement on either of the participants in this little melee. The information does suggest that there was a whole lot of bad decision making on everyone's part. Regardless of the justification (or not) of the parent pulling the gun, both parties behaved in an unacceptable manner.

One observation though, in today's society, I'm pretty sure "Let's go settle this like men," or some similar statement, would legally constitute a threat. While I don't think that making the statement is grounds for prosecution, it pretty much removes any innocence one has in an ensuing fracas. Particularly if the individual making the statement appears physically more capable than the individual threatened.

Regarding the validity of drawing once you are taking a beating, that depends entirely on the events immediately preceding the draw. I'm not certain of PA law, but I used to instruct the class required to get one's CCW in North Carolina. NC law clearly states that in an altercation where one is the agressor, one can legally use deadly force in self defense only if you verbally and physically attempt to disengage from the conflict. Again, I don't know if there is a similar PA law.

My personal solution to this sort of thing involves the re-legalization of duelling. I'm sure people were much more polite when it was legal to demand satisfaction on the field of honor for unacceptable behavior.

doug

[wewo]

the man shouyld have loudly responded "I am not going to fight you, what are you a thug or a coach?, someone call the police this man is threatening me!" or something similar and then walked away. Then if the coach starts beating him to a pulp anyone it becomes more justifiable. I know it sounds wussy, but I simply can not buy in this day and age that some arguments must be settled in a fight, thats B.S. pride, teenage crap, not "fighting like men". If you cant talk it out, walk away.

[Buckmark.35]

Originally Posted by wewo

I know it sounds wussy, but I simply can not buy in this day and age that some arguments must be settled in a fight, thats B.S. pride, teenage crap, not "fighting like men". If you cant talk it out, walk away.

Well wewo... sometimes you gotta throw hands.. lol.

Seriously though, you're right. Overbearing parents, and power-tripped coaches seriously hurt organized sports, and, at the elementary age, a child's perception of sports and competition. Both the coach and the dad were completely out of line to start fighting.

I would, however, expect that if someone was invited to a fight... and they accepted the invitation, that pulling a gun is something a criminal would do. It's along the same lines as two guy fighting, and one guy's friends jumping the other guy... If you're going to fist fight.. then fist fight..

I don't buy the fact that the guy pulled the gun in self defense.. He pulled the gun because he's a coward who got himself in over his head.