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Old October 5th, 2007, 12:06 PM
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Default 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

First an itching question I have, what is the difference between 5.56x39 and .223 and 7.62x39 and .308?

That being said, I want an AK. I would prefer an AK74 in 5.45 or .223 but would take an ak47 in 7.62. Money is the deciding factor now and will decide this issue for me. I have been looking around and the prices for this ammo doesnt seem to be that different, or typical for that matter. They vary in price greatly.

I want 5.45 but if its not significantly cheaper than .223 than I would just get .223 because it is domestically produced in the usa. I see 1080 5.45 rounds as mil surp but i think they are corrosive. New rounds seem to be on par with .223.

What is the true deal here? 5.45 is no where near as plentiful as .223 online. Looking at ammunitiontogo.com
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Old October 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
What is the true deal here? 5.45 is no where near as plentiful as .223 online. Looking at ammunitiontogo.com
I'm no AK person so i'll stick with the ammunition part. First the 5.45x39 is a awesome cartridge, and i would not hesitate to own a rifle in that caliber. Second, there is NO domestically produced 5.45x39. You would be stuck with imported ammunition which is prone to supply disruptions. I've seen Golden Tiger brand 5.45 but its pricy, the Bulgarian WASP is highly regarded but it IS corrosive. (Corrosive or not the AK wont care, just clean it properly...)

If you get a 5.45 go for broke and buy as much ammo as you can afford. (and then some more!) God only knows what the ammo import industry is gonna face post 2008...
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Old October 5th, 2007, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

$$$ being a factor, a .308 (7.62 NATO) is out. About the cheapest .308 you're going to find is a CETME, but you looking at about $600-$700. Ammo is running at minimum $0.50 per round unless you roll your own.


An AK should run you no more than $400 out the door.

As for caliber..... 7.62x39!!!!!!!!! Metal magazines and other accessories for this caliber are plentiful. The AK-74 standard magazine is made of Bakelite. Plastic vs. metal - you guess who wins

7.62x39 Wolf (or similar) ammo is inexpensive enough, or you can roll your own if you don't mind searching for your brass 1/4 mile to your right. 5.45x39 is about the same price as 7.62x39 (give or take the cost of lunch). 223, although the ammo is domestically produced, you're more than likely going to pay a bit more for magazines; as this was not one of the "original" calibers for this platform.

.223" or .308" Which hole would you rather have in you (if neither isn't an option)? Shoot the bad guy with the other.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:27 PM
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Thumbs up Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

goody...my computer is freaking out.
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Last edited by OneLungMcClung; October 5th, 2007 at 02:36 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
First an itching question I have, what is the difference between 5.56x39 and .223
5.56 x 39....... is a mistake. Do you mean 5.56x45? If so, here is the two:

5.56x45 NATO

.223 Remington

Here:

Quote:
The primary difference between .223 Remington and 5.56 x 45 mm is that .223 is loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56 mm. .223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 mm chambered gun, but the reverse can be an unsafe combination. The additional pressure created by 5.56 mm ammo will frequently cause over-pressure problems such as difficult extraction, flowing brass, or popped primers, but in extreme cases, could damage or destroy the rifle. Chambers cut to .223 Remington specifications have a shorter leade (throat) area as well as slightly shorter headspace dimensions compared to 5.56 mm "military" chamber specs, which contributes to the pressure issues.

NOW... since you reference AK's below, did you mean 5.45x39? This is the Soviet Union's response to our change from 7.62x51 to 5.56x45. They thought it would be a good idea to switch their battle cartridge from the 7.62x39 to the new 5.45x39. I believe they wanted the same wounding effects of the 5.56x45 NATO. I remember reading about loud protests from the people at Kalashnikov... but the Politburo gets what it wants.!

5.45x39mm M74
for the
AK-74


Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
7.62x39 and .308?
Here's wiki on:
7.62x39
.308 NATO

7.62x39 AKA 7.62 "Soviet" is the primary round fired by the AK-47. It usually is loaded with 120-126 grain bullets (with outliers in both directions for special loads). The "x39" is the length of the case in mm.

.308 NATO....AKA "7.62x51". This is the primary round fired by "older" NATO weapons, including the M-14 (known to civilians as the M-1a), the FN-FAL, and the H&K G3. Still used on our sniper rifles and our MMGs. The "x51" means a case length of 51mm....obviously longer and hence more powerful than the AK's round. The ".308" is the bullet diameter in inches (caliber). It's roughly the same as 7.62mm. It usually is loaded with 147-168 grain bullets (with outliers in both directions for special loads). 7.62x51 and .308 NATO are damned near identical....one is military (7.62x51) and on is civilian (.308 Winchester or NATO).

Owning firearms that fire both...I can tell you that the ballistics and range are better on the 7.62x51...but the recoil is higher. And the ammo is more $pensive for 7.62x51.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
That being said, I want an AK. I would prefer an AK74 in 5.45 or .223 but would take an ak47 in 7.62. Money is the deciding factor now and will decide this issue for me. I have been looking around and the prices for this ammo doesnt seem to be that different, or typical for that matter. They vary in price greatly.

I want 5.45 but if its not significantly cheaper than .223 than I would just get .223 because it is domestically produced in the usa. I see 1080 5.45 rounds as mil surp but i think they are corrosive. New rounds seem to be on par with .223.

What is the true deal here? 5.45 is no where near as plentiful as .223 online. Looking at ammunitiontogo.com
5.45 isn't made here. Do a PAFOA search on it. I remember some people had ammo problems with the round - like misfires and splosions? Search for it.

WHEW! that was alot of work....I need a beer!


Lol that was my 400th post too!
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Last edited by OneLungMcClung; October 5th, 2007 at 02:45 PM.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

great info onelungmclung. That was all very helpful.

I may have to just get 7.62x39 though (ak47 rifle). The 74 sounds better to me but the plentiful ammo just isnt happening, 7.62 is at least fairly common. I think I wouldnt go for .223 because of the issue with magazine capacity. Damn. In a perfect world they would sell ak74's at walmart right next to thousands of rounds of 5.45.

And yes, I get the ammo mixed up sometimes with the case length.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
I think I wouldnt go for .223 because of the issue with magazine capacity.

umm...... HUH?
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Old October 5th, 2007, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

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Originally Posted by Mtdew View Post
umm...... HUH?
Woops, meant to say compatibility/modification.
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Old October 6th, 2007, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

Quote:
Originally Posted by jh664322 View Post
...The 74 sounds better to me but the plentiful ammo just isnt happening, 7.62 is at least fairly common. ... In a perfect world they would sell ak74's at walmart right next to thousands of rounds of 5.45.
5.45mmx39 surplus ammunition is readily available if you know where to look. A quick Google search (results) yielded numerous sources.

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Old October 6th, 2007, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: 7.62x39,5.45x39,.223

you seem more than a little confused.. the short answer is the ak is a cheaper gun, and ammo is cheaper.. so if you mean it when u say cost wll decide theres noting left to decide.. online on my cell so i cant get ino the specifics of ammo at the moment

edit: also note you can outfit AK's and AR's with just about all the same toys(lights lasers bipods front grips ect ect

Last edited by XD45; October 6th, 2007 at 08:32 PM.
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