[PAFOA Alert] URGENT: PENNSYLVANIA ANTI-GUN PACKAGE VOTE ON TUESDAY AM - 11/15/07

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by liberty556

Hon. Will Gabig

Please take all action required to block any movement
to bring HB18, HB22 and HB29 out of committee. These
bills, all created by Philadelphia liberals, are
designed specifically to errode the liberties of
Pennsylvanians and have no impact on gun crimes.

Someone in the legislature, and I hope it will be you,
needs to stand up to Rendell and his follwers from
Philadelphia. They need to know that Pennsylvania is
more than just Philadelphia and we do not agree with
their anti-gun/anti-freedom ideas.

I understand that the Democrats are using the
unfortunate events in Philadelphia where police
officers have been shot and killed to push their
agenda, but laws are of no consequence to criminals.

Please bring some common sense to the PA legislature
about this subject and stop these attacks on our
liberties.

Respectfully,
Wade Reall

The knucklehead "representatives" from philly don't reflect all of philly.

One trouble with philly is, too many criminals still have the right to vote and too many politicians think they can get away with anything by pandering just right. Dirtbags like Evans, Fattah, Brady, et al. hardy reflect the will of average "normal" philly resident. Look at Street. You think anyone with a brain voted for that clown? Twice!?

Our one gun rights advocate, Fumo, turns out to be an indicted criminal.

It's not the average Joe in philly that's the problem. The whole state works the same way.

Look at what Gabig did to you. Tell you one thing and deliver another.

[CCinPA]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

Yeah, except, Gabig voted for HB29...

No, give credit where credit is due. Gabig voted to table HB29. That was not a vote for HB29. It is obvious that many in the committee ate not comfortable at all or with the language in that bill and it was motioned to have a vote to table the bill and as you can see the vote to table was 27/2.

[CCinPA]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

Our one gun rights advocate, Fumo, turns out to be an indicted criminal.

It's not the average Joe in philly that's the problem. The whole state works the same way.

Look at what Gabig did to you. Tell you one thing and deliver another.

It was a vote to table HB29 and he voted NAY to the other 2 bills, it never left committee so why is everyone with the idea gabig did wrong?

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by CCinPA

It was a vote to table HB29 and he voted NAY to the other 2 bills, it never left committee so why is everyone with the idea gabig did wrong?

Makes sense. My mistake.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by CCinPA

No, give credit where credit is due. Gabig voted to table HB29. That was not a vote for HB29. It is obvious that many in the committee ate not comfortable at all or with the language in that bill and it was motioned to have a vote to table the bill and as you can see the vote to table was 27/2.

There is no language that can make this bill (HB29) a good bill; it's like putting perfume on a pig. I accept nothing less than a nay vote, as anything else keeps it alive, even if only on life support. 10 Minority members and 2 of the Majority got it right and voted nay.


Had Gabig, Harper and O'Neill voted nay, the count would have been 14-15 instead of 17-12. Not a huge deal, I know, right?


Furthermore, and I quote Gabig himself from his communication to some of us,

Originally Posted by W. Gabig

You can count on me to oppose these bills. We have sufficient laws in this state to deal with criminals if they were enforced properly. These bills will only affect law-abiding citizens who have the right to bear arms.

A vote to table != opposing.

[Murf_The_Surf]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

There is no language that can make this bill (HB29) a good bill; it's like putting perfume on a pig. I accept nothing less than a nay vote, as anything else keeps it alive, even if only on life support. 10 Minority members and 2 of the Majority got it right and voted nay.


Had Gabig, Harper and O'Neill voted nay, the count would have been 14-15 instead of 17-12. Not a huge deal, I know, right?


Furthermore, and I quote Gabig himself from his communication to some of us,



A vote to table != opposing.

I totally agree with you that this bill must die; there is no salvation for it. The very concept is flawed.

I also totally agree with you that only a nay vote was acceptable; Mr. Gabig's response does not convince nor assuage me.

The hope in Harrisburg is that they can make some minor changes and pass a "fixed" bill; the old sleight of hand maneuver. They might even attempt to portray opposition to their "fixed" version as extremism, or some other hyperbolic pressure tactic. Tabling wasn't necessarily opposition; voting to administer a well-deserved death to HB 29 would have been true opposition.

That's why we need to take Dan's advice and work even harder on top of yesterday's victory. Until the legislature knows better than to give any serious consideration to these feel-good, do-bad bills, we need to make sure the legislators continue to feel our presence.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Murf_The_Surf

The hope in Harrisburg is that they can make some minor changes and pass a "fixed" bill; the old sleight of hand maneuver. They might even attempt to portray opposition to their "fixed" version as extremism, or some other hyperbolic pressure tactic. Tabling wasn't necessarily opposition; voting to administer a well-deserved death to HB 29 would have been true opposition.

I think that's why no good can come of tabling HB29, it sets the stage for the opposition to attack us as being unreasonable in the future and put the pressure on to compromise. Yesterday was the ripe time to have killed that bill, the longer it lives, the more difficult it will be to dismiss.

That's why we need to take Dan's advice and work even harder on top of yesterday's victory. Until the legislature knows better than to give any serious consideration to these feel-good, do-bad bills, we need to make sure the legislators continue to feel our presence.

Excellent advice.

[WhiteFeather]

A Big THANK YOU to everyone that called and/ or emailed all 29 committee Reps.

You all made the difference in helping stopping these bad bills.

PA politicians better learn this phrase.

"Supporting gun control is political polio. It has a crippling effect on the career of any politician who engages in this strategy".

I was there in Harrisburg during the voting and debate it was standing room only with lots of PRO-GUN Reps (that couldn't vote) showing their moral support at opposition to these 3 anti-gun proposals. I spoke to several dozen pro-gun reps before and after votes, lots of happy faces that they didn’t emerge from committee. Got to thank most, not all Reps that voted NO on HB18, HB 22 see notes on HB 29

I have several first hand interesting observations to share with all of you, because you made lots of things happen that I got the chance to observe.

There where police officers in uniforms from various cities in committee room that came in an organized fashion immediately proceeding the governor. They also traveled with Governor in empty corridors, so in my opinion it was organized by governor. Got also to witness some citizen handing the governor a lawsuit (I think that was it) about electronic voting machine problems in hallway just prior to his entering judiciary committee meeting. Citizen told me that same papers where going to be delivered to all 50 governors, state attorney generals and department of state.
Space was also saved for these uniformed officers in committee room to be “USED” as stage props in my opinion, they all left in organized manor following governor speech / testimony (wasn’t sworn in to tell the truth, so don’t see how it was testimony, just governor opinion).
They all had firearms and once they leave there respective cities what jurisdiction does they have, to wear uniforms and firearms, let alone carry then in capitol? Where they paid to be there, on duty? Who paid for their transportation, food, lodging? What function was there presents that day to perform, armed troops to intimidate committee members? Show support for legislation (which they probably haven’t read).
A couple officers had the black band across there badges, one of them did a interview for TV before committee meeting and these police was separate from the main body that traveled with governor.

There where several police officers there from the city of Reading that moved with governor in organized fashion for TV camera before entering committee meeting.

After governor speech there was lots of interviews in hallway just outside of committee meeting (looked like a media feeding frenzy of people getting interviewed) – I went back in meeting to witness votes and show my moral support. I was immediately standing next to one of the two groups of seated committee members that where seated on both sides of the ones you could see if you watched PCN-TV.

On the vote for HB 18 the first attempted recorded vote was said it passed and lots of confusion and out cry that someone needs a calculator. Vote was verified that it indeed didn’t pass. All Reps voting at table right in front of me and lots of non-voting reps where keeping score of each vote (yes and no) on pieces of paper. They didn’t want to wait for official vote. You could hear a pin drop on votes HB18, HB 22

Only confusion on any votes and talking among reps was during the discussion on how the anti-gun people could save there HB 29 bill. (this is only time when I noticed people that where voting on both sides on this bills ever entered into any semi private discussions before tabling votes). I was on the right side where it was mostly the pro-gun Reps most of whom I had personal detailed discussions over the years so I wasn’t worried about how most of them where going to vote, except on tabling HB 29. I have got to do some studying of pass voting records and research as to why did some voted the way they did on tabling HB 29 instead of taking the chance to kill it in this session.

Note to all of you reading this. Anyone can sponsor this type of legislation has to do it a slight rewrite with this bill or any bill and it can be resubmitted to this committee with a new number, so everyone don’t get all worked up over Reps tabling this bill votes. It’s the one to vote for passage that really counts, behind the scene politics was in effect. It was done to save face, period. Off camera it was chaos, with text messages, lots of Reps and aides talking in other people ears to do something to save political face at having all 3 anti-gun bills getting shot down in a row. If you watched video closely you will see parts of this, look at people picking up and reading their phones and getting up from seats etc and look at general overall demeanor of Reps knowing what side of the issues they are on, its written every where ACTIVE GUN OWNERS from around the state helped make this happen.

One of the things that help save US on this besides all of your numerous emails, phone calls etc was the Oct 23 Legislative Lobbying Day event. Inside, classified information sure is a big help to knowing what is getting pushed and when. On Oct 23 event all 29 of these committee Reps and staffer where especially extra targeted by over lapping groups, just because we knew these where coming up for a vote soon (not exact date). It was part of the reason for short notice that prevented many people that really would have liked to go from attending this event. Anyone that wanted to know more info on Oct 23 event could have contact organizer by phone or email to get their question answered I did.

People can argue how effect these events are usually by people that aren’t there and with no intention of attending, or have gone to rallies that only advocate holding a sign up and not directly engaging politics at point blank range. Some people feel that is a waste to talk with Reps staff in person if the Rep is not available. In most cases it the same staffer that you call to voice your concerns over bills like this. When you are there is person and get to witness how your phone calls concerns are noted by staff personal you will be amazed as to what happens with your information both good and bad. It no different than anyone that has called tech support to deal problem can tell you its all how you approach people. Politics does not work the way most people “believe” it does.

This whole personal effective lobbying thing could be a book instead of just this brief text, with lots of debate from people. My advice for anyone that wants to learn more on how to be effective is to attend open FOAC meetings or contact Kim Stolfer by email or phone you will all be surprised how helpful he is to fellow gun owners that have an honest desire to make things for the better in PA for everyone.

Sorry for poor sentence structure and grammar in this report have a couple my items that I want to add just don’t have the time today SO PLEASE DON'T QUOTE MY TEXT going to find time to fix it – really busy today at work making up for a day off to go to Harrisburg.

Thank you again for all of your help in stopping these anti-gun bills, without your direct involvement from all of you it would had a different outcome.

[liberty556]

HB29 deals with reporting stolen guns right? I'm not sure what the argument is against that. If one of my guns were stolen I would be reporting that to the police so that I would not be suspect in any crime it may be used in and I would be seeking the insurance coverage as well.

I do not want criminals to have access to any guns, especially mine, and if my gun gets out of my control I want people looking for it and the person who took it. In my case, I have class 3 weapons and must report thefts to the ATF anyway. If I were a criminal I would go for those first.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by liberty556

HB29 deals with reporting stolen guns right? I'm not sure what the argument is against that. If one of my guns were stolen I would be reporting that to the police so that I would not be suspect in any crime it may be used in and I would be seeking the insurance coverage as well.

I do not want criminals to have access to any guns, especially mine, and if my gun gets out of my control I want people looking for it and the person who took it. In my case, I have class 3 weapons and must report thefts to the ATF anyway. If I were a criminal I would go for those first.

What a normal person would do is not a rational basis to make it a crime to do anything else, especially in such vague terms as HB29 does. It's already illegal to give someone a gun that cannot own one...it is already illegal to commit a straw purchase...it's already illegal to give/sell a gun to someone without going through an FFL/Sheriff to conduct a background check on the purchaser; all of those cover any real criminal action by the original owner of the firearm in question, there is simply no need to enact a new law to cover lost or stolen firearms.

The vagueness of the bill also concerns me. You cannot look at the law in light of what it says it will do, you must look at it in light of what harm could be done if it were to be abused (which it will be).