Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum - Open Carry http://forum.pafoa.org en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:25:53 GMT vBulletin 60 http://forum.pafoa.org/images/misc/rss.jpg Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum - Open Carry http://forum.pafoa.org a great landlord http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79563-great-landlord.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:55:56 GMT after seeing some threads on people deeling witheir landlords and asking some questions about landlords rights and all that i have to post this...... after seeing some threads on people deeling witheir landlords and asking some questions about landlords rights and all that i have to post this... first off my landlord and i share the house, just to let you know how this works..

my landlord is a 70 yr old retired state trooper, and very much into anything old west/cowboy stuff, he regularly rides the Pony Express every year or when he can afford.

there are guns in the house he has a couple .45 LC SA's and carbines for shooting cowboy action stuff off his horses, and knows and supports my view on gun rights ! i even got him to get his LTCF last year when i renewed mine, even though he really doesnt need it being ex LEO.

well yesterday he comes up to my room and tells me about a neihbor that called to tell us about a neibhors down the road who had their house broken into yesterday during the day while they were at work, we live in a rural type setting and they live 3 houses down, about half a mile or so..

well my landlord decides today to OC his chrome plated .45 LC SA while doing chores outside to send a message to anyone staking out the houses in the neihborhood... how cool is that ??? i left the house to get something to eat and he was mending part of the fence in the pasture that one of the horse broke .. said he got a few looks from cars passing while he was out bythe road lol ]]> Open Carry 4XLT http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79563-great-landlord.html OC shortly before/after work http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79556-oc-shortly-before-after-work.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:10:37 GMT I know that when I carry outside of work its my business, and people at work know I carry off work hours... I'm not too worried about this scenario otherwise, just shortly before and after work.

Lets say I'm headed to work and I decide to get coffee at Sheetz before hand and I bump into a co-worker (or boss) who is getting coffee as well. I am OC and we both have to be to work in 15 minutes. The co-worker (boss) knows I'm obviously headed to work. They also know darn well that I have to have my gun with me while I am at work (or in the car). The company has a strict no guns policy. They can put 2 and 2 together.

My question is this, given that scenario... Do you guys worry about this? Do you CC shortly before or shortly after work to avoid this potential problem? ]]> Open Carry Pro2A http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79556-oc-shortly-before-after-work.html any OC in and around Reading? http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79537-any-oc-around-reading.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:22:35 GMT Hi all,

I'm a new member to the forum, and currently live in FL. I grew up in PA and I will be moving back to the Reading/Kutztown/Wyomissing area in a few weeks. I have been CCing down here since I moved 3 years ago, but never in PA. I like the idea of OC for comfort and was wondering if there was a big group of people that OC in the Reading area.

Never noticed it growing up, but only started to really look. any tips or pointers for an OC newbie?

steviesterno ]]> Open Carry steviesterno http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79537-any-oc-around-reading.html Just gave out my first flyer http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79437-just-gave-out-my-first-flyer.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:42:43 GMT I had to fix the carseat for the little one last night. So today, as I was putting it back in the car, my neighbor asked me, "Are you allowed to carry a gun like that?"
Me: Yep, open carry is legal in PA.
Him: Wow, you serious?
Me: Serious as I can ever be.

I had the PAOC and MWAG flyers in my car, so I gave him both of them. I briefly told him about LTCFs and how to get one. I pointed out the different websites and told him to let me know if he signs up here so that I can introduce him. He plans on applying for his license within the next week. Ah, a good day! ]]> Open Carry pedaler73 http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79437-just-gave-out-my-first-flyer.html More Good OCing at Grove City Outlet Mall http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79407-more-good-ocing-grove-city-outlet-mall.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:04:39 GMT I normally don't post non-events, but I had a good conversation this time...

Stores visited without any interaction:
- Wilson's Leather
- Eddie Bauer
- Woolrich
- VF Factory Outlet

Then I went to Columbia. As soon as I walked in, I was greeted and continued in the store. As soon as I was walking past the greeter, I caught (out of the corner of my eye) the guy's head whip around. Nothing said.

I started looking at the clothing and he worked his way quickly toward me, looking "busy" as he straightened clothes on the rack. Then he spoke:

Staff: Finding everything alright?

Me: Yep.

Staff: I gotta assume you have a carry permit, right?

Me: Actually, you don't need a license to carry openly in Pennsylvania.

Staff: Really? My father has always had a permit to carry concealed. It surprises me that PA allows that. I imagine you have to be careful about carrying in the Post Office, banks, and schools?

Me: You need a LTCF to carry concealed or in the car, but you can carry openly all day without one. As far as locations, you can't carry....blah, blah, blah...but banks are private property, so as long as they allow it, you're fine.

Staff: Really? Do a lot of people say anything to you?

Me: Actually, no one notices.

Staff: Really?

Me: Think about it...people are always carrying cellphones and stuff on their hip, so people just look and don't think about it. Maybe 1% of the people I encounter say anything.

Staff: Really? I was in the military, so I kinda notice those things right away. What are you carrying there? A Glock?

Me: (mental facepalm) No, it's a Beretta/Stoeger Cougar. You probably recall the M9...this is its baby brother.

And with that, my phone rang and I had to take the call. I wished him a good day and went on my way.


All told, it was yet another positive day of OC, with a great encounter thrown in. No one screamed and ran away. No police arrived in black helicopters. My gun didn't jump out of its holster and shoot 23 innocent children.

But I really tried to ruin it for everyone. ;) ]]> Open Carry Paradigm http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79407-more-good-ocing-grove-city-outlet-mall.html Open Carry all you Can Eat! http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79311-open-carry-all-you-can-eat.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:28:25 GMT Planning on getting a group of friends together next weekend (after thanksgiving) Maybe Friday Maybe sat? For an Open carry dinner at the Ryan's all you can eat in Hanover Pa? Any one care to join my group we have going? ]]> Open Carry wolfpackpatriot http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79311-open-carry-all-you-can-eat.html OC in Gander Mountain, NOT GOOD, UPDATE, Page 4 http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79211-oc-gander-mountain-not-good-update-page-4-a.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:09:11 GMT just got back from Gander Mountain in Greensburg. i had one item i needed and GM was the only one to keep it on stock. i walk in the door head... just got back from Gander Mountain in Greensburg. i had one item i needed and GM was the only one to keep it on stock.

i walk in the door head right back to the gun counter, grabbing some peach rings on the way. i get the item i needed. when i stood up there was the gun counter employee looking at me.

i walk over and and ask if he can ring me up so i don't have to wait at the front counter.

Him: You can't have that in here
me: are you a manager
him: no
me: i know the corp policy, i know it follows state law. i worked for GM for 3.5 years and know the store manager well. ring up these items and i'll be on my way.
Him: giving me the "GTFO" look rings up the items and i head to the front of the store

i ask the cashiers there who the manager on duty is and to have them come to the front to talk.

i know all the managers in the store from working there and they know me.

the manager came over and asked what i needed.
i aksed her about OCing and why i was told i can't have it in the store.
she said it was scaring the customers and that the district manager and store manager don't want anyone OCing in the store.
i asked if there were signs posted and she said no, they do it on a person to person basis. you have a CCW use it.

i tell her about corp rules and that PA does not issue a CCW. told her to have the store manager and left.
i'm awaiting a call from both corp. and the store manager.

first the Sheriffs deputys now Gander, whats next ]]> Open Carry renegadephoenix http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79211-oc-gander-mountain-not-good-update-page-4-a.html OC at wendys in murysville on 22 http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79100-oc-wendys-murysville-22-a.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:10:01 GMT Nothing going on right now, it's actually kind of sad how many people just plain don't notice but it is nice to not get a MWAG call against me(hopefully).

This is the first time ocimg since getting my LTCF so I figured I would post it up. I will update as neccessary when I get up to leave as I don't think anyone will notice while I am seated.

(on iPhone btw so sry for spelling if there are issues)

ETA: just left, no issues and there were even kids in there :o ohz noz

I would like to thank renegadepheonix and all the others who have paved the way for us "new" to oc to not be hassled ]]> Open Carry poorman http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79100-oc-wendys-murysville-22-a.html <![CDATA[Do court facilities have to check your OC'd firearm? Possible 18Pa.C.S.§913 anomaly]]> http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79285-do-court-facilities-have-check-your-ocd-firearm-possible-18pa-c-s-913-anomaly.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:29:25 GMT *Staff note: This was a side discussion from the below thread: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/open-carry-144/open-carry-14...-sheriffs.html...
Staff note:
This was a side discussion from the below thread:
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-sheriffs.html (Spirited OC discussion with Westmoreland Co. Sheriffs)

This topic deserves it's own thread so I moved the relevant discussion here.
~Pa. Patriot
__________________________________________________ _________________________________

The firearm storage provisions within 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 913 are pretty oddly written:

Quote:
(e) Facilities for checking firearms or other dangerous
weapons.--Each county shall make available at or within the
building containing a court facility by July 1, 2002, lockers or
similar facilities at no charge or cost for the temporary
checking of firearms by persons carrying firearms under section
6106(b) or 6109 or for the checking of other dangerous weapons
that are not otherwise prohibited by law. Any individual
checking a firearm, dangerous weapon or an item deemed to be a
dangerous weapon at a court facility must be issued a receipt.
Notice of the location of the facility shall be posted as
required under subsection (d).
It's quite odd that sections "6106(b) or 6109" are mentioned with regard to firearms. Essentially, someone could read it as: "The firearm can only be checked if carried under section 6106(b) or 6109. Weapons other than firearms may also be stored within the lockers."

Remember, 6106(b) is persons exempt from licensing and 6109 refers to the licensing procedure itself. So, I wonder, would a Sheriff be legally out of line if he refused to store a pistol from an OCer who won't provide a LTCF or LEO ID? I don't think that Sheriff would be legally wrong. ]]> Open Carry mjf http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79285-do-court-facilities-have-check-your-ocd-firearm-possible-18pa-c-s-913-anomaly.html Spirited OC discussion with Westmoreland Co. Sheriffs, UPDATE PG. 4 http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79068-spirited-oc-discussion-westmoreland-co-sheriffs-update-pg-4-a.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:47:20 GMT Yesterday i was working a booth at the PGCA gun show behind Westmoreland Mall. right beside our booth we had the County Sheriffs dept. booth. i'll keep it short and leave out some of the redundant talking points that we kept going over.
two months ago i had some issues with checking a firearm in at the county court house and as i was asking them about why i was hassled for not providing ID the discussion turned to why was i OCing in the first place.

I explained that it was more comfortable for me to carry open. i had a License to Carry a Firearm for when i travel in a vehicle or when i need to conceal carry. i told them i don't carry ID when i OC.

them: you were issued a License to Conceal a Firearm. when an officer asks for ID you Must provide photo ID that they ask for whether it be DL or LTCF.

i explainded that this isn't 1940 germany and i only need to verbally state my name if i so choose.

them: we can stop you and DETAIN YOU if you refuse to provide ID.

me: if i have not commited any crime, you can do no such thing, you can not stop or detain me for simply OCing. (handing him a gun rights flyer) Commonwealth vs. Hawkins and Commonwealth vs. Ortiz.

them: if we see you OCing, we will stop you and then call the sheriff and have him revoke your LTCF for causing "Public Durress".

Me: i guess you didn't have your 2009 MPOETC training yet or haven't gotten the memo on Hain vs. Lebanon Co.

them: conversation over, Cover it up!

me: no can do, go ahead and arrest me. (walk back over to my booth with ShawnL, Guymontag, Dagny). throughout the day the one deputy kept giving me this look of "now ya done it, and i have to hear about it when i get back to the office".

will be calling into the sheriff tomorrow when i have time. ]]> Open Carry renegadephoenix http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79068-spirited-oc-discussion-westmoreland-co-sheriffs-update-pg-4-a.html <![CDATA[Really? You can do that? That's So COOL (oh and we saw a REAL NJ Carry permit)]]> http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79062-really-you-can-do-thats-so-cool-oh-we-saw-real-nj-carry-permit.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:54:53 GMT Another story from the Split Rock show this past weekend. A gentleman came up to the table looking for ammo, had his wife and daughter with him... Another story from the Split Rock show this past weekend.

A gentleman came up to the table looking for ammo, had his wife and daughter with him (daughter about 17-18ish). Some small talk ensued and then he asked what I was carrying (open of course), told him a Kimber. He complimented me on it and mentioned it was "open, cocked and locker" after saying "is there any other way to carry a 1911" I breeched the subject of open carry by telling him I always carry like this.

His daughter said, "everywhere?" to which I responded, "Yup, the store, the bank, just about everywhere you can legally". Well her eyes lit up like a kid at Christmas and she said "That's So COOL!". I explained to them that Pa. was in fact an open carry state and that there was a pretty decent sized movement going for it. Also mentioned some of our "brothers and sisters in arms" in VA, Ohio and other states and even told them about the Open Carry movement in Ca.

Tootie came over and handed him one of the Open Carry fliers and we began to talk more.

The father mentioned he had a non-resident PA, a Florida and a NJ 'permit" :eek: ... of course at this point I gotta know how he got that. Turns out he is a bounty hunter, yup a real live bounty hunter. He also was under the impression you had to conceal in Pa. Told him to pull out the license and read what it said, which he did. I also mentioned there are many sheriffs in Pa. telling people they had to conceal but it was nonsense and we were fighting them and their propaganda whenever possible. Also mentioned the normal "not in a car, Philly etc. etc.

So the whole time we are talking this young lady is going on and on about how cool it is to OC and she wants to move here and do it, it was actually comical at times how excited she was about this concept, all while Mom is sitting there with a look on her face like "that's not going to happen" - meaning move to Pa.

We went on to talk about just about anything you can imagine, from the NJ gun laws, the way they screwed him around with his NJ permit (he was actually arrested one time in Elizabeth while working and the cop told him it was because his permit was ONLY for Ocean county had NO restrictions :eek: ) The cop told him ALL NJ permits have restrictions. Well needless to say the charges were dropped and his new permit now has a restriction that says "while in the course of doing business", he bitched and moaned to a superior court judge about this and the judge told him "You are on call 24 hours a day right? So you are always in the course of doing business!" He pulled out the two permits and showed us the one with and without the restrictions. It's weird too, the way the mark the front "restrictions" looks like it is voided out, it is in big black letter and angled across the front.

We also talked about the great 'transport' debate and he confirmed if it is locked up with the ammo separate you are good to go. He relayed a few stories of people he had bailed out that were nailed for gun restrictions and how he helped get a few of them dropped, along with his lawyer.

So anyway don't want this post a mile long, met some great people from NJ, learned about some NJ stuff while teaching them some OC stuff and found a young lady that just might be moving to Pa. some day so she too can OC.



and you know I just thought of it .. I should have gotten his card JUST IN CASE! ;)

Oh and also, I really hope he signs up here ... the guy has a wealth of knowledge about NJ and carrying, is one hell of a nice guy and he has the site so here's hoping. ]]> Open Carry dc dalton http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79062-really-you-can-do-thats-so-cool-oh-we-saw-real-nj-carry-permit.html open carry rifle/shotgun?? http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79060-open-carry-rifle-shotgun.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:30:26 GMT I am being told that it is legal to Open Carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in Pennsylvania. Is that True??? I am being told that it is legal to Open Carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in Pennsylvania. Is that True??? ]]> Open Carry mioduz http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79060-open-carry-rifle-shotgun.html <![CDATA[Oh, you're one of those.]]> http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79046-oh-youre-one-those.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:21:07 GMT That's the comment I got from a gentleman at the Split Rock show this weekend.

The whole conversation started out with him trying to find a holster that could be deep concealed. We found a few that would work for him and I had to come out with the "hey, carry it open then you can carry it where ever you like" (meaning on his person) comment. That's when I got the "oh, you're one of those" :rolleyes: and I came back with "so is everyone behind this table" :p

We started talking more on this subject and he came out with the well known "But, what happens when a bad guy sees you and goes after you first". Apparently he has had this discussion many times and usually with people that didn't get their point across without a screaming match. So I though reasoning would work best here.

I gave the best analogy I could think of at the time...
Say you have two women walking down the street. One is a woman walking with her head down not paying attention to anything that is going on around her. The other is standing tall aware of everything that is happening around her, showing her confidence. Who do you think the perp would go after?

His response: "the armed woman".
Me: "I didn't say either was armed".

His attitude changed.

Him: "You mean the least resistance thing don't you?"
Me: Yes, a person that wants to steal something from someone or do them harm is not going to go after a person that looks like they will fight back.

He agreed with me and left knowing that just because a person is OC that it doesn't make them the prime target. Oh and he bought a cozy partner, guess I didn't convince him totally, but he's now not one of the "Oh, you're one of those" people anymore. ]]> Open Carry Tootie http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/79046-oh-youre-one-those.html anyone OC with the blackhawk serpa shoulder rig?? http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/78999-anyone-oc-blackhawk-serpa-shoulder-rig.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:36:16 GMT anyone have one of these shoulder rigs that use the standard serpa hip holster if so does it work good?... anyone have one of these shoulder rigs that use the standard serpa hip holster
if so does it work good?
http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/bl...ge-p-1811.html ]]> Open Carry rmodel65 http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/78999-anyone-oc-blackhawk-serpa-shoulder-rig.html An OC Experiment http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/78991-oc-experiment.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:58:31 GMT Many of you who know me, and even some who don't, know I OC just about everywhere. I do not have a problem with CC, and even do so when I feel that the situation warrants it. Until recently, one of my personal rules has been to CC when I have customers or students coming. For those not familiar with my business, I am a fairly well known teacher in my field of endeavor, and I get people, mostly adults, coming to my humble shop from all over the US and Canada to learn how it is I do things. Virtually everyone who comes to see me, whether to buy something I have made, or take a class, comes by appointment. There are no real surprises concerning people showing up for business purposes.

In a classroom situation, people spend eight to nine hours a day with me. Often they are from far away. Some of them have taken plane trips to get here, spending money on hotels, rental cars, restaurants, etc, all for the pleasure of my company. I try to make things as positive as possible for them, since they have gone to considerable expense to get here. Earlier this year I started OCing when customers would show up. A couple of weeks ago I decided to OC for my students as well. One of the things I did was to make a You Tube video performing a popular operation in my shop, all the while wearing a revolver OC. It caused quite a stir on some of the forums concerned with woodworking, but no real negative feedback.

So far I have had two students spend time with me while I was OC. One was from Georgia, and one was from (gasp!) New Jersey. Both took it right in stride. This week, I have a guy coming from New York and another from Virginia. The script is written, it has been practiced, and already put into effect. I expect that things will go well with both. I post this all to say that OC is something that can be accepted by the public at large in all sorts of settings, and from people from different "cultures" - i.e. different parts of the US. It helps of course, if they already know the person carrying, but it also helps that they see someone just doing normal stuff with their gun on their hip. ]]> Open Carry PennsyPlinker http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/78991-oc-experiment.html