http://forum.pafoa.org IDPA, IPSC, Target Shooting and all discussion related to it. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:27:40 GMT vBulletin 60 http://forum.pafoa.org/images/misc/rss.jpg http://forum.pafoa.org http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79525-quick-ipsc-question.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:41:15 GMT I've shot a lot of IDPA, but have never shot an IPSC match. I'm planning on shooting one this weekend and had one question:

Is there a limit on the number of magazines I can carry in Production class, and if not, how many do I need?

Thanks in advance. ]]> Rule10b5 http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79525-quick-ipsc-question.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79473-bushnell-eotech.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:01:01 GMT what r the pros and cons of the eotech sights compaired to bushnells holosight 510023 at $250 what r the pros and cons of the eotech sights compaired to bushnells holosight 510023 at $250 ]]> cal_jrp http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79473-bushnell-eotech.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79367-need-realistic-training.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:40:44 GMT Operations & Tactics 12 Elements of...]]> Hate to say it, but one handed point shooting blends in nicely with this article:


Officer.com Home > Operations & Tactics

12 Elements of Firearms Training
The dozen critical elements of modern firearms training

Posted: Tuesday, November 17, 2009
Updated: November 16th, 2009 09:14 AM EDT

BANK MILLER
Training Contributor

It can easily be argued that the job of a law enforcement firearms instructor is more difficult today than ever before. With everything now required from our already strained training resources, it has become increasingly difficult to even establish what the right questions are, let alone find the right answers. To help build a solid foundation and establish some basic criteria for what a law enforcement training program should include International Training, Inc. has adopted the 12 critical elements outlined below.

The information gathered for this analysis was obtained from several surveys conducted by the California Commission on Peace Officers Standards and Training (POST) and the FBI. The FBI has collected data on officers killed and assaulted since 1945, and California POST started collecting such data in 1980. The surveys cited in this study encompass those conducted by the FBI from 1995 through 2004. After summarizing these studies, the following guidelines were drawn for police firearms training.

FBI Analysis of Officers Feloniously Killed from 1995-200

545 total officers feloniously killed with firearms

Broken down into two category distances: under seven yards and over seven yards.

Under Seven Yards:

* 0-5 feet, 268 officers killed, 49% of total
* 6-10 feet, 107 officers killed, 20% of total
* 11-20 feet, 65 officers killed, 12% of total

Note that the percentage totals indicate that 440 officers killed (81%) with firearms in the time frame specified were killed at distances under seven yards.

Over Seven Yards:

* 21-50 feet, 47 officers killed, 8% of total
* over 50 feet, 41 officers killed, 7% of total
* distance not reported, 17 officers killed, 3% of total

Totals for officers killed at distances over seven yards (or not reported) was 105 officers or 19%

1. Prepare officers for immediate, spontaneous, lethal attacks

Why?
Based on the above statistics, one can see that close quarter tactics and techniques are a must for officer survival. Personal communication with unknown individuals is a big part of our officers' daily routine, and they have to be close enough to them to do it effectively. The difficulty arises when these unknown individuals turn out to be bad guys. When this happens, a mastery of drawing and firing from various close quarter positions, weapon retention, physical strikes, and other close-quarter combat skills are obviously critical.

How?
To satisfy the close distance issue, a basic cardboard target holder that is sturdy enough to withstand muzzle blast, palm strikes, and an occasional flying ticket book should serve you well. As far as sudden and spontaneous goes, a high-speed turning target system that suddenly presents a threat just when the officer glances away can add a tremendous amount of stress to the situation.

2. Prepare officers for assaults by multiple threats and uninvolved subjects

Why?
Statistics tell us there is about a 60% chance that an assault will involve more than one attacker. At the same time, we need to be aware of uninvolved, innocent bystanders as well. In many domestic abuse calls, the spouse or other family members can start out as uninvolved, but then join in against the officer if a conflict ensues. Learning to break the tunnel vision phenomenon and engage multiple threats with total awareness of uninvolved subjects justifies shoot / no-shoot training, increases survivability, and decreases liability issues.

How?
The most obvious approach here is lots of targets. Tall ones, short ones, some closer, some farther away, some clustered in a group, and some off by themselves. Another particularly effective technique also employs turning targets, but they have to be individually controlled. As your officer is engaging targets 1 and 2 as they edge and face right in front of him, try facing target 6 and see if he notices. Better yet, use a 180 degree turning target that can show you a bad guy or a good guy in the same place at any given time.

3. Integrate the sudden transition to firearms from arrest and control techniques, including searching and handcuffing

Why?
Many potentially lethal assaults occur as the officer is searching and/or attempting to handcuff the subject. This sudden shift to a deadly force situation can be exceptionally dangerous if the officer has not been conditioned with the proper response techniques. Glaring examples of insufficient training and conditioning would be the officer failing to create distance if the chance arises, or attempting to draw his firearm with his handcuffs still in his hand.

How?
The use of drag dummies, CPR dummies, and turning targets are all effective here. The dummies provide realism and a platform for practicing control techniques, while the turning targets provide the sudden visual indicator that the situation has escalated.

4. Base training on the fact that most officers are killed at short distances

Why?
The statistics presented earlier clearly establish where most officer fatalities occur. However, it is important to note that this element does not say Teach your officers how to shoot at close distances. It says to base your training on the fact that most fatalities occur up close. It's like the guy who tells his doctor that he broke his leg in 2 places and the doctor says So, don't go to those places! If most fatalities occur at close distances, we should all be aware of when it is appropriate to be farther away.

How?
In addition to the close-quarter combat techniques discussed in elements 1-3 above, a moving target that charges straight at the officer can be extremely effective at illustrating the importance of creating distance and demonstrating the best ways to move quickly and effectively in various situations.

5. Base training on the fact that officers will have limited fine and complex motor control

Why?
We should all be aware of the various physiological responses our bodies undergo during a combat situation. Manual dexterity is the one we are focusing on here. As blood flows away from our extremities and towards our core, we lose fine and complex motor control in our fingers and hands. Unfortunately, elements of good marksmanship like trigger control can be the first to go. Now before a panic ensues, we believe that teaching basic marksmanship skills (like proper trigger manipulation) is absolutely vital and should not be abandoned! However, make room in your training for the fact that fine and complex motor control will be decreased, and that the officer can still make good hits despite this.

How?
The best way to demonstrate the effects of stress to your officers is to immerse them in it. Make them run, get their heart pumping and their adrenaline flowing, then send them into an interactive scenario with dye marking rounds and role-players shooting back at them. The breakdowns in technique will be startling.

6. Integrate two-person contact and cover teams involved in realistic scenarios

Why?
Just because one of your officers knows how to safely and effectively engage multiple threats, reload efficiently, and move from one piece of cover to another doesn’t mean he knows how to do those things with 2 or 3 other officers running around him trying to do the same thing at the same time. Where is my muzzle? Where is my partner? Where is my partner's muzzle? Proper tactical communication is absolutely critical!

How?
Have 2 and 3 man teams go through tactical scenarios together. Use portable cardboard and steel targets in a variety of locations and configurations. Have the teams shoot side by side so their partner's brass is bouncing off the bill of their cap or down their shirt collar. Condition them to be profoundly muzzle conscious, and make them realize the importance of communication when it comes to moving, reloading, and staying in the fight.

7. Emphasize the survival mindset and the will to win in all skills training

Why?
Quite often, what you bring to the fight will dictate the outcome of the fight. Having a winning mindset and a positive attitude will enhance the officer's odds of survival. While our work is dangerous, we have a high risk of being a victim off the street rather than on the street, and at times the biggest threat we face is the one in the mirror. Particularly with younger officers, movies and television have shaped much of what they perceive as the realities of a gunfight. For example, the perp that flies back 15 feet and crashes into a pile of trash cans after being hit with a single handgun round. Clint Smith said if you get into a fist fight you might get punched, if you get in to a knife fight you might get cut, and if you get in to a gunfight you might get shot. It doesn't mean the fight is over, it just means you may have to finish the fight a little differently than you had originally planned.

How?
Knowing how to shoot, reload, and clear stoppages with only one hand (both left and right) is imperative. Our officers must be confident in their ability to win the fight even if they are injured, and they must be comfortable with these techniques in order to gain that confidence.

8. Integrate one-handed firing of a handgun. Include dominant and support hand, plus drawing, reloading, and stoppage clearing

Why?
Many law enforcement shootings occur with one hand, and using a single hand is often to your tactical benefit based on the situation. Even if you are not injured, a traditional 2-handed grip may be impractical or even dangerous if means giving up too much cover or concealment.

How?
Primarily for safety reasons, one-handed skills training is best executed in small groups. Because officers will be presenting and handling their weapons in untraditional and perhaps unfamiliar ways, muzzle awareness is critically important in these drills.

9. Integrate close-quarter structure searching and clearing plus indoor combat tactics

Why?
When a family comes home to find their back door kicked in, they call the police. Does the call go to the SWAT team? Of course not - it goes to the nearest officers on patrol. Either alone or with a partner, every single officer needs to know how to perform basic close-quarter techniques like tactical entry, hallway navigation, and room clearing. They need to know things like which way a door swings if you can see the hinges (towards you), and they need to know not to expose body parts around corners, don't rub you back along the wall as you move, and don't hang out in doorways.

How?
A live-fire ballistic shoot house is the ultimate training tool for these situations. It provides a structure for all the tactical movement and navigation training, plus it escalates the stress and realism of the training by incorporating threat engagement with actual duty weapons. It's one thing to fire a gun in a nice straight line out on the qualification range. It is another thing entirely when you are inside a building trying to be aware of 360 or 540 degree environment.

10. Emphasize dim or no light situations as much as daylight training

Why?
Because 70% or more of law enforcement shootings occur under reduced or diminishing light conditions, significant training with your duty illumination tools is a must. Target identification and threat recognition are critical parts of this training as well, and keep in mind that flashlights are needed in the day time just as much as in the night time because you never know where you may end up. The illumination tools you carry will have a significant impact on how you handle your weapon and ultimately on how you fight, so you must be extremely comfortable using them under a wide variety of tactical situations. Many departments have adopted the use of lasers, so your training must include the proper use of these tools as well.

How?
If you already have a shoot house that can be darkened, you have an ideal venue for all kinds of low-light training. An indoor range also serves this purpose well. If you don’t have access to either of these facilities, night time on your outdoor range should provide some pretty good darkness.

11. Integrate moving then shooting and moving while shooting techniques

Why?
If you maintain a picture-perfect stance during a gunfight, you are not doing it right. If you are not moving to create distance then you should be moving to cover. The ability to shoot effectively while incorporating lots of movement gives you a dramatic tactical advantage, increases your chances of survival, and decreases the chance of hitting something you didn't want to hit. Remember, when shooting while moving you should move no faster than you can hit, see, and in some cases, hear.

How?
Effective movement techniques can be taught with just about any target equipment you have available. Running man targets and automated turning targets can make the experience more realistic and intense by allowing the trainer to control the scenario and respond to the trainee's actions.

12. Integrate engagement techniques for moving targets, both laterally and charging

Why?
Training on moving targets has become mandatory for law enforcement agencies across the country, and rightfully so. When was the last time you were in a violent confrontation with someone who just stood still? Because running seems to be a part of most gunfights, the ability to fire safely and accurately at moving threats can be one of an officer's greatest assets. It is important to train for both lateral threat movement and charging movement because each requires a specific skill set and response from the trainee.

How?
Some portable moving target systems are very effective and flexible because they can be configured for both types of threat movement (lateral and charging). A heavier-duty track mounted system can be equipped with a steel target plate to enhance muscle memory through the immediate positive feedback of clanging steel

Again, being a law enforcement firearms trainer today is an extremely difficult job. You have to be part teacher, part motivator, part mechanical engineer, part lawyer, part drill sergeant, part counselor, part maintenance staff, part etc., etc. We pay tribute to you trainers who dedicate your efforts to developing the next generation of warriors, and we hope the information presented here serve to focus and clarify the process.

Source - http://www.officer.com/web/online/Operat....raining/3$49345 ]]> Matthew Temkin http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/79367-need-realistic-training.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78742-mauser-cmp-matches.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:48:35 GMT My club is in the process of getting CMP matches in the near future. I'm considering getting a Mauser (likely a VZ 24) for use in this as I can more quickly afford it than a Garand, though obviously I want to get one of those in the future. Is this a good idea? If so, what 8mm ammo would you recommend for this purpose? If I get it, I'm definitely going to get a can of the steel cased Romanian stuff for practice as that's going to be most of the work getting good with shooting with iron sights again. How accurate is that, and if not accurate enough for matches, what is?

Or would I be better off getting a K31 Swiss? ]]> Yellowfin http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78742-mauser-cmp-matches.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78657-slapping-combatives.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:39:41 GMT What would you rather endure from a training partner, a punch to the chest at 25% power or a slap to the face at say 15%? I for one will take the... What would you rather endure from a training partner, a punch to the chest at 25% power or a slap to the face at say 15%? I for one will take the punch. Slaps are too often over looked when it comes to combatives.

Slaps are intuitive and much easier to become efficient with than other hand strikes. One of the biggest problems with teaching people to strike efficiently is getting them to follow through and visualize the energy going beyond the target. Due to the open hand and arc of slaps, it is much easier.

Lets talk about targeting with slaps. First, and most obvious, the head. A power slap to the head is more likely to effect the Central Nervous System, Circulatory System, and Structural System than any other strike. Here is why, picture yourself slapping someone across the face/side of the head as hard as you can, I mean really putting your hips into it. Upon contact it will overload all the nerves of the face, the eyes will involuntarily close as the head snaps back at a 45 degree angle. This is the Central Nervous Systems disruption, not only is the brain being over loaded by the sting of the slap, but the brain, and Ocular nerves are also being violently smashed into/towards the side of the skull. Structural System disruption is being achieved by the cervical vertebrae being instantly squeezed together. As the head moves back and to the side, the body is taken off center and your attackers base is destroyed, if only for a second. Using your hands large surface area to the target rich area of the face/neck increases the likely hood of either striking the Vegus Nerve, which provides information about the state of the body's organs to the Central Nervous System, or the Baroreceptor which serves as your body's thermostat.

A few classes ago an advanced student volunteered for a little experiment. After donning the appropriate protective equipment, headgear, and mouthpiece for him, and eye protection for me, we proceeded. Standing within arms distance with an exposed G17 airsoft in his holster, the directions were simple, whenever he was ready he was to draw the pistol and try to shoot me. I in turn was supposed to only defend myself by slapping him in the side of the head. He drew the gun and I slapped, luckily "checking" my slap instead of following through. Both of us being right handed, as soon as he was slapped his head spun back and to his right, my pinkie struck below the headgear and made contact with the Baroreceptor. His gun, just out of the holster fell to the floor out of his limp arm and I moved forward to grab him before he hit the ground. Took him a few minutes to recover.

Moving onto other targets, MCS never relies on pain to make techniques work but we don't mind it helping either. I along with many reading this have higher than average pain tolerance than others who don't train. That said I have found that pain tolerance has little to do with things that sting, like being smacked across the lower back or even the chest. A powerful slap to the chest causes the arms to go out to the side and then forward, as the chin snaps violently to the chest. My other favorite is on the inside of the leg, halfway between the knee and groin, easier to strike than the groin. Causes people to open their legs to establish base, this in turn exposes the groin.

So in closing, maybe you should consider adding the slap to your striking repertoire. ]]> mercop http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78657-slapping-combatives.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78484-home-defense-strategy-points-ponder.html Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:38:15 GMT Face it, we all have visions of how a real home defense situation is likely to happen in our own homes. There are only three types of defense... Face it, we all have visions of how a real home defense situation is likely to happen in our own homes. There are only three types of defense locations: home, transit, and other locations. We expect to sleep peaceably in our homes at night, safe and secure with our families. Hopefully, we have a strategy based on our particular environment and needs. The following are some points not often considered during home defense strategies.

During a recent class of about 10 people, I asked how many people had a pair of shoes next to their bed. Only one out of the ten did. So, in the middle of the night you hear a crash downstairs, you hop out of bed and grab a pistol or long gun and decide to investigate. Imagine if you -

Get to the top of the steps and step on a Lego or dog toy causing you to fall down the steps with a loaded firearm in your hand. This is especially an issue with a long gun, or if you have a light in one hand and a gun in the other.

After making it down the steps, you detect movement and step forward. The crash you heard was a glass that the intruder had knocked off your kitchen counter after jimmying the door. The small shards of the drinking glass cut into the bottom of your bare foot.

Do you sleep without a shirt on? Do you put one on when you get up? Do you prefer a long gun for home defense? Have you ever fired that gun bare chested? Do you think it will effect your response?

More about your strategy, a little about the use of tell tales. Tell tales are very useful in many situations. I break them into three categories: security seals, placement, and lighting. They are a great tool for a layered defense.

Security seals- usually done with sewing thread or scotch tapes depending on the situation. These are most often used when out of your home but can be used when leaving your home for a period of time. Say you are leaving on vacation for a week and do not expect anyone coming to your home. Some gray or tan thread can be used to string across the entrance to your back yard, about waist high so as not to be disturbed by animals. You can also take a few pieces of tape and put them in the lower corners of all exterior doors. Now if you come home and the string across the entrance to the back yard is broken it should make you suspicious, then you walk around to the back door and find that the tape you put in place is ripped. Act accordingly. The tape also works well with your vehicle when leaving it say in an airport parking lot. Doing the hood, trunk, and doors only takes a minute but can give you a huge piece of mind when you return.

Placement- when I go to bed at night I button up by closing all doors, pushing all chairs in, locking all doors and windows. Now if I come downstairs and anything is out of place it draws my attention. You can do this with any items, even say on a desk.

Lighting- my strategy is to work from the darkness whenever possible. In my own home, I am better at negotiating my house in the dark than an intruder is. When I go to bed, the only lights left on are exterior lights. The house is completely dark. When leaving your house, it is your choice to leave a light on or not. Leaving a light on allows you to see silhouettes inside the house.

There is more to home defense strategy than tools and tactics. Consider all things.- George ]]> mercop http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78484-home-defense-strategy-points-ponder.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78453-spag-idpa-no-more.html Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:12:10 GMT Do the guys who organized the idpa at spag not do it anymore? Called down there and they said they were not doing it this month either. Do the guys who organized the idpa at spag not do it anymore? Called down there and they said they were not doing it this month either. ]]> blendingnoise http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/78453-spag-idpa-no-more.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77754-f-i-r-e-institute-tactics-2-aar.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:00:27 GMT One of our students posted this to our Pgh-training discussion list. I asked and he granted permission to re-post it here. It was good. It was... One of our students posted this to our Pgh-training discussion list. I asked and he granted permission to re-post it here.

It was good. It was humbling. It was educational. It was motivational. I learned some things, and I learned that there is a LOT more for me to learn. My thanks to Tony, Pete, the volunteers and the other students for making it possible.

What did I learn?

I learned that it is tempting to call the scenario/situation "unrealistic" and to blame the scenario for my mistakes. But, I do leave the car doors unlocked SOMETIMES at a stop light (just this morning in fact, after dropping the girls off at school.) I do SOMETIMES pull up too close to the car in front of me, or not have anywhere to go at an intersection. I am SOMETIMES surprised at how close the person is to me at the ATM, or checkout line, or just on the street. I do SOMETIMES stop to help someone whose car is broken down. I have seen a man with a bat in his hand walk up to a picnic table where I was sitting with friends. So those ARE realistic situations. I just wasn't prepared for them, and I didn't have a plan for dealing with them.

I learned that I have to be in control of myself if I want to be in control of the situation. Shooting to slide lock is NOT being in control. Screaming and cursing is NOT being in control. Having a simple plan and executing it well IS being in control. Using front sight and trigger press is being in control. Choosing your words, your tone, and your body language is being in control.

I learned that the principles and concepts introduced in Carbine I and Tactics I are VERY useful when it comes to controlling confrontational situations.

I learned that having/carrying/shooting a firearm is not sufficient to control every situation. However, once I have decided to use the firearm, it is very useful to be able to deploy and fire the weapon without fumbling or taking my eyes from the problem.

I learned that the threat you see may not be the only threat.

I learned that I am as/more likely to escalate the situation than the bad guy is.

I learned that you can't walk around in ORANGE all the time, but that spending some time in ORANGE helps you be more comfortable in YELLOW, and makes it easier to find YELLOW when you need it.

I learned that I wouldn't learn these lessons from reading books, on the internet, or square range classes.

What else was useful?

It is useful to go through these scenarios even if you don't solve them at the time, because it gives you a problem to think about and to try and solve for yourself. I've since thought of two or three different things to TRY when confronted with the drunk in the door. I don't know if they'll work, but I've at least given it some thought. That's useful.

It's useful to realize that some problems have NO good solution. And that a problem never presents itself the same way twice. Two different drunks in two different doors are two DIFFERENT problems depending on why you are there, what you have to do, and why HE is there. Not every problem is a nail, so I need tools in addition to the hammer in my belt. That's useful knowledge. ]]> TonyF http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77754-f-i-r-e-institute-tactics-2-aar.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77567-9mm-uspsa-ss-division.html Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:54:14 GMT What are your thoughts on being competitive at the local level with a 9mm in the SS division. Here are my thoughts: Con: Stuck in minor (No... What are your thoughts on being competitive at the local level with a 9mm in the SS division.

Here are my thoughts:

Con: Stuck in minor (No matter I will just shoot all A's :) )

Pros: +2 in the magazine
Pros: Ammo is way cheaper (I can afford to practice more)

Are any of you currently shooting a 9mm SS for USPSA? ]]> spagluvx http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77567-9mm-uspsa-ss-division.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77547-i-am-confused-can-someone-help.html Tue, 03 Nov 2009 02:27:21 GMT OK, here's the deal, I have a Howa M-1500 varminter supreme chambered in .223, heavy target bbl,with a 10-40x50 varmint scope that's my set-up.I am shooting Winchester ballistic silver tip factory loaded 55gr ammo(because I am not confident enough to load my own yet). With that being said here is the question I want to sight in at 200 yds I ran the numbers from the USMC marksman literature if I sight in at 36 yds and hit the bull and group nice and tight the cross hair should be dead on the bull at 300 yds also with no elevation adjustment, So... that means that i should be about 3-3 1/2 inches high at 200yds.....Am i understanding this correctly? ]]> PAhoghunter http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/77547-i-am-confused-can-someone-help.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76895-quick-deployment-firearm-home-defense.html Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:58:44 GMT I'm trying to fire through some of the best ways to keep a firearm secured for rapid deployment in the need for home defense.

During daylight hours when everyone is awake I always have my EDC on me which would serve as my primary during those hours. It's on me when I wake up, and when I leave the house and then secured properly in my car (also adherent to company policy) while at work, then when I leave it's back on me until bedtime.

Unfortunately here is where my problem begins. I keep it in it's holster close to the bed, but unsecured. If something goes "bump" in the night and im unsure of what it is I try to listen for a minute to make out the noise. If I even think it's someone trying to get into the house I get the lights on, hand my wife my phone and my EDC (she knows how to use it) and I get the AR out of the closet and the mag out of where I keep it (separate, hidden) chamber a round, make safe and start heading to my daughter's room (priority 1). Currently I'm keeping a trigger lock on the AR while it's stowed this way.

She's on the other side of the house, and no way to rearrange the rooms so she'd be in a better spot. This forces me to move across the house.

I'd like a balance of "more secure" and "easily deployable" for both the pistol and the carbine.

Can anyone share their experience/method?

I honestly considered moving my gun cabinet into my bedroom closet, which the wife won't like, but eh.

Any experiences with the wall mounted gun security things that I've seen before?

Thanks! ]]> Kaos http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76895-quick-deployment-firearm-home-defense.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76750-where-you-getting-your-firearms-training-information.html Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:34:43 GMT Right, wrong, or different the majority of armed, "trained", people being involved in shootings in the US are police. My experience is that they have a hard enough time getting cops to qualify in sterile conditions much less adding any stress or thought of tactics. What we do when it comes for firearms trickles down from three places and the supreme court tells us that training at least for the police needs to be recent, relevant, and realistic so lets take a look at their sources and how they translate to you walking down the street, armed trying to protect a loved one.

Military- recent could be. Relevant, nope, you are probably not going have an M4, and will be walking down a city street in the US, not a bombed out city in Iraq. Realistic, nope, you are not part of a team and will probably not even have one other shooter with you. And if you do chances are you are not trained to work together.

Police- recent could be. Relevant, nope, whether they are in or out of uniform as soon as they say "POLICE" they are acting under the color of law and have protections the citizen does not enjoy. Many police involved shootings are the result of a call for service or at least contact initiated by the officer. For the citizen it will be the bad guy who initiates the contact. I have seen some officers that were awesome on the street fall apart in off duty scenarios when that are out of uniform and don't have a radio on. Realistic, again not really, since seldom will a citizen ever get a chance to deploy their pistol like police do prior to many shootings.

Competition shooting- Recent, very much so. Relevant- depends on the type of competition. Very little is done in low light conditions and little force on force because it it hard to score on a sheet. Realistic, not unless you are getting attacked walking to or from your house or in your car. Wait, can't do that with live fire, of course that would be dangerous and hard to score. Just like getting attacked from behind or after being knocked down.

Here is a game to play with your favorite competition shooter. Give him an airsoft pistol that exactly matches his carry gun. Give him some headgear. Stand at arms distance from him. Have someone stand behind you with the tennis ball of death. Your shooter is instructed that when he sees the ball drop he is to draw and shoot you. In response to his movement you pimp slap him in the side of the head. See if this breaks his concentration. For us it has resulted in dropped airsofts and people getting knocked down. And when your competition shooter says how unfair the drill is you ask him to consider being knocked to the ground or up against a wall during a real altercation. That and being hit with a round house, the punch that starts most fights.

I don't care if you come train with me, or one of the of the other enlightened instructors out there. I just ask that you take a long hard look where you are getting the information from that you are using to prepare yourself to protect you and your family. Does it jive with the most likely threats you are likely to encounter?

If you like to spend you training time playing golf with a gun (what I call many gun games, since many are about the score and not preparing you for a real altercation) I am cool with that but don't try to pass it off as well rounded training.- George ]]> mercop http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76750-where-you-getting-your-firearms-training-information.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76658-log-jam-result-too-many-techniques.html Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:08:48 GMT As I get more and more training, or at least think about attacks, I want to know techniques that are effective. To an extent. Shawn.L repeatedly... As I get more and more training, or at least think about attacks, I want to know techniques that are effective. To an extent. Shawn.L repeatedly reminds that too many techniques can be as bad as too few because you waste time deciding what to do.

This article was posted on a martial arts website but the idea is the same. Replace "dojo" with "range" and we have the same problems; the training does not translate well into real life.

http://urbansamurai.org.uk/street-se...se-techniques/


Personally, I like to have only a few options but perform them well.



This is good too http://urbansamurai.org.uk/training-...efense-part-2/ ]]> Joe Smith http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76658-log-jam-result-too-many-techniques.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76547-swedish-police-point-shooting.html Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:31:32 GMT and not doing real well I might add http://sydsvenskan.se/webbtv/webbtv_sverige/article556364/Polisen-skjuter-skarpt.html I have no clue what... and not doing real well I might add

http://sydsvenskan.se/webbtv/webbtv_...er-skarpt.html

I have no clue what they are saying but I sure hope its something like "you see sven this technique works great inside contact distance but from out here you seem to be shooting a 3 foot group"

oh, and I guess they slingshot the slide too....... ]]> Shawn.L http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76547-swedish-police-point-shooting.html http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76384-gun-knives-dose-reality.html Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:09:44 GMT Image: http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/mercop/Knifeattack.jpg?t=1256216355 First this a snap shot in time, a very small glimpse at one...

First this a snap shot in time, a very small glimpse at one force on force scenario.

The student in black started out with his protectee (guy in red behind him, picture your wife or kid) on his reaction side walking down the street, so far so good.

He is then confronted as he turns the corner by a man with a knife ordering him to give up his wallet. Our good guy uses his reaction side arm to move his protectee behind him but due to the dynamics to the situation the protectee is now moved to the good guys strong side. This causes three things-

His first instinct is to now get his right hand up to reestablish physical control of his protectee, this becomes exaggerated now because instead of being off to his reaction side his protectee is behind him causing him to stumble backwards. As he falls to the rear both hands come out to the side. His right arm also seems to be pinned against his body hampering a possible draw. This is when you will need open hand skills. The bad guy already spooked advances with the knife.

This did not end well for the good guy.

There is no perfect answer to any of this, I post it to show how with step this way or that way the dynamics of a situation can change dramatically. ]]> mercop http://forum.pafoa.org/competition-tactics-107/76384-gun-knives-dose-reality.html