had interesting brainstorming with Cop today

[Mity2]

There is this buisness i go to hang out. Owner is good friend of mine. Its a Mechanic shop. I sometimes go there just shoot chit with owner.

I've been wondering this with the owner for a while. i figure i'll ask. May be someof you have an answer.
Pay attention to simple map I've drawn.


Ripka's is the shop. School is located other side of parking lot. Distance between school and shop is about 50feet or so. School bus is parked next to side entrance. When bus is there, kids and bus will be within 25feet to the shop
Property line is center of parkinglot. But when bus is there, they double park to load and unload kids. When they do this, they are in SHop side of parkinglot.
Now I know I can't have gun in school property or within certain distance. Thats a given. But how about if private property is within that distance? you can't poses drug within 1000ft of school property. thats written in law book. But you can't posses iligal drug anywhere. so thats different.
Now, buisness is well within 50ft of school. But its a private property. Infact, shop was there before school was. ANd Chapter 12, Section 912 only states

(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose

So my question was am i infact braking the law if I CCW at my friend's shop?. I mean i'm in private property. But I'm within 25feet of kids when they are loading bus or discharging from bus. eventho it does not say you can't, that somehow seem soo wrong that I can carry a wepon that close to school property, not to mention near the kids.

LEO i asked the question felt same. But there is nothing states in his penal code book. He called other officer, and DA too. he said he'll get back to me

[NineseveN]

If you get caught doing something and they press charges, possession of a weapon on school property will be added to it...being charged for that alone is unlikely due to the "other lawful purpose" clause, though that has not been tested in court in PA yet IIRC.

[markheck1]

Why would it "seem soo wrong" to be carrying that close to kids? I carry right next to my kid, I sure as hell don't disarm to drop his lazy butt at school. If you were going to murder a kid, why would you care about that silly law? These laws do absolutely nothing to stop that kind of crime, it's already illegal to murder someone, the gun possession law is a minor inconvenience. Someone smarter than me can fill in the legal blanks, this is just my Opinion

[Punisher]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

...being charged for that alone is unlikely due to the "other lawful purpose" clause, though that has not been tested in court in PA yet IIRC.

yeah, we need somebody rich to try this one out - someone that can pay for a really good lawyer - try the schools and the post offices.........if they were to win, we would then have case law.......

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Punisher

yeah, we need somebody rich to try this one out - someone that can pay for a really good lawyer - try the schools and the post offices.........if they were to win, we would then have case law.......

The problem is, the person would have to be arrested first, which kinda denotes that they would have to be suspected of doing something other than just carrying a firearm. This puts any potential case in muddy waters. I do know of someone right now facing that charge, but he has been charged with other things (which he really didn't do, but will have to play out the court system in order to be vindicated).


I guess openly carrying near a school might do it, maybe not. I've never tried it, I don't live near a school.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

... the "other lawful purpose" clause, though that has not been tested in court in PA yet IIRC.

Case pending currently.... no I don't have the link handy right now

[Punisher]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Case pending currently.... no I don't have the link handy right now

well, definitely keep us updated, although for it to really hold weight, it would have o be appealed to a state rather than a local court if lost...........right?

[Statkowski]

Carrying a firearm at the shop across the street from a school is legal.

To date, there have been no convictions of anyone with an LTCF for carrying on school grounds or in a school building. My thought is that the prosecuting authorities don't want to go anywhere near the "other lawful purpose" clause for fear of having it clearly defined against them.

My State Representative, Sam Smith (R-Punxsutawney), pointed out that there were only two such cases even approaching the school grounds issue regarding lawful purpose, Bolden v. Chartiers and Commonwealth v. Heidler, and both of them were for cases other than "other lawful purposes." Bolden was an employment contract case where Bolden accidentally brought a firearm to school - he was terminated because of the terms of his employment contract. Heidler had to do with whether Heidler had constructive possession of a firearm after a protection of abuse order was issued. Again, nobody wants to touch that "other lawful purpose" clause with a 10-foot pole.

There was a case of a lady having a pistol in her purse inside a school - all she ended up being charged with was defiant trespass or a similar charge.

[RoyJackson]

Originally Posted by markheck1

Why would it "seem soo wrong" to be carrying that close to kids? I carry right next to my kid,...

I agree...in fact, I had to reread the original post after I read Markcheck1's response.

Mity2
Why would you think this is so wrong? I don't really understand your thought in this.
The law says "for lawful purposes". All of us LTCF holders are carrying lawfully, are we not?
It's very unfortunate that someone will have to be arrested to clear up a vague law. It's also unfortunate that the people who voted for and are responsible for enforcing this law don't know what it means either...

[MrUgly]

Not sure if this helps, but on Sunday's I take my son to the park by Stroudsburg High School. You have to park in the schools lot, but the park is Borough property. While he was playing one day, a local office "Office Lyons" I think, rolled by. I stopped her and asked. I explained that I had my LtCF and asked if I was okay. She shrugged and said school wasn't in session, and I was on city property. Asked that I keep it holstered and went on.

I was very heartened by that.