can a community association forbid carry of fireamrs on community property?

[twoguns]

I live in a private lake community and in the most recent newsletter it was stated that "possession of a loaded or unloaded gun on community property is prohibited".

I am a member in good standing (all dues are current) and have reason to cross a field and other areas held by the community as recreational property. I hold a LTCF and do not intend to open carry in this situation but carry concealed when walking my dog or going for the mail etc.

Is this legal for the community to make such a rule?

[Paradigm]

Who owns your property? You or the association? If you own your property, carry all you want. Heck, set up a chair in the front lawn and start cleaning your weapons tomorrow morning.

If the association owns your property (and you lease/rent from them) then you gotta follow what the landowner wants.

[Paradigm]

Another thought: who owns the roads? Does the association plow and maintain them, or does the township/state? If the latter, then they can't stop you from OC/CCing walking around your community. If they own/maintain them, then they would likely be private roads.

If they have a community center that they own, then they can make rules about that, too.

[theo]

Read the association by-laws. Did you sign the by-laws when you bought the property?

[customloaded]

Originally Posted by twoguns

I live in a private lake community and in the most recent newsletter it was stated that "possession of a loaded or unloaded gun on community property is prohibited".

I am a member in good standing (all dues are current) and have reason to cross a field and other areas held by the community as recreational property. I hold a LTCF and do not intend to open carry in this situation but carry concealed when walking my dog or going for the mail etc.

Is this legal for the community to make such a rule?

Key here is COMMUNITY PROPERTY. If the Association owns the common ground that all use, pool, roads, docks, etc...then I'm sure, being private property, they can regulate what they want too.

It would be interesting how it plays out if you transport firearms for recreational use as well as for protection....Yup, surely would.

[Statkowski]

How can you get your firearms to and from your residence if they forbid the possession of such, loaded or unloaded, while transiting their real estate?

Are they assuming full liability for your personal protection while on community property?

[twoguns]

the question is about carry on community property.
It is private property held by the community. I am a member in good standing in this community and have a right to self protection. The roads are maintained by the community not the state or county. Does not a right trump protected by the state constitution trump a community covenant?

Yes, good question; does the community association assume responsibility for my safety while on community property? Great question? Perhaps I should pose that question to the board of directors of the community.....and what about transiting on those community roads to and from my residence? How could I possibly get my firearm to and from my home/private property without violating the covenant?

Of course, concealed carry who would know anyway?...unless/until I am forced to use the firearm. Then is it a matter of fight the bad guy first and then worry about the legal issues of carry in violation of the community covenants?

Just a few questions/thoughts on my mind.

All of your comments are well received. Thanks,
twoguns

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by twoguns

Does not a right trump protected by the state constitution trump a community covenant?

Private property rights are a bedrock of this country. While 2A rights are huge, property owners should be able to have final say about what happens on their property. Just think about your house...If someone came in and acted like a boorish pig (protected by 1A), shouldn't you be able to toss him out onto the street?

Originally Posted by twoguns

Yes, good question; does the community association assume responsibility for my safety while on community property? Great question? Perhaps I should pose that question to the board of directors of the community.....

I think this is where you can get to the nub of their rules. If they have their own police force and are willing to watch your house 24/7/365, then they'll be set. Of course, it's silly to think that they could do such a thing. If they won't guarantee your protection (or be financially liable), then you pretty much have them. That doesn't mean they will change their rules, but you will open a boatload of eyes (and maybe a few minds).

Originally Posted by twoguns

...and what about transiting on those community roads to and from my residence? How could I possibly get my firearm to and from my home/private property without violating the covenant?

Again, a great point to throw at them. After all, a gun is a legal product, And it's backed by the US and PA Constitutions. It's not like you're toting around crystal meth.



Sadly, this is another great reason why homeowner associations suck. You chose to live in one, now it's biting you in the butt. Hopefully, you'll be able to introduce some common sense into the group...

[Nic]

If you signed association by-laws that included guns being prohibited, then they can enforce the rule. If they just decided to put it into a newsletter, and it wasn't in the by-laws when you signed them, I would think you have a legitimate beef. IANAL...

[headcase]

Wouldn't you, as a dues paying member, be part of the ownership? Wouldn't the remedy be to force you to leave the association? How can you be arrested for trespassing where you live, or was there some other assumed consequence of breaking their rule...?