can a community association forbid carry of fireamrs on community property?

[addicted2freedom]

contracts trump rights.

[Bruce]

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, a judge, a cop, or a groundskeeper.

Now, what's with all this 'trumping'. This isn't a game of cards.

So called "property rights", in this case, have to do with Trespassing Laws, rather than with any actual "rights".

Contracts can be used to get someone to (voluntarily - ya gotta read the fine print) waive their rights, so - it isn't so much that contracts are more powerful than human/citizen rights, but more so where you can (again, voluntarily) "give up" your rights by signing them.

Find out exactly, specifically, who owns what.

Find out exactly, specifically, what was written on whatever you actually signed.

We'll go from there.
.

[t1m0thy]

another reason to never buy property that has an HOA. I used to live in one and I will never do so again. It is just one big headache.

[twoguns]

.....OK GUYS,

This has been a very informative discussion thus far. And here is an interesting twist: I said I am living in this community. I have signed nothing. NO contract or agreement. I happen to be living with a relative who owns the house. So where does that leave me?

As an individual do I not have inalienable rights? So because I happen to be living here does not mean that I signed my rights away. I signed nothing.
I have not read these bylaws or seen a copy of covenants but how do they effect me as someone who lives here but never agreed to such a thing?

On a different note, I would say that perhaps it could be viewed as an opportunity to try to educate some folks. The question becomes, for me anyway, do I have the patience to deal with trying to change people's thinking? The whole issue came to my attention after reading something in the newsletter this month. It got me thinking about a lot of things.

[twoguns]

....AND BY THE WAY, THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INPUT AND DIALOGUE ON THIS SUBJECT.

[rkrcpa]

It's not about signing anything, it is a deed restriction that runs with the land, you abide by the rules of the HOA. As far as how far you want to push it, it seems to me that you need to be sure the owner of the home is willing to go through with this. I say this because these entities can be quite poilitical and you would not want to cause your relative grief with the neighbors without their knowledge and support.

HOA's come up with all sorts of oddball rules, I remember one that had a rule against flying flags, including the American Flag. They also can tell you what color your house can be, where you can park your car, whether or not you can have a motorcycle. The list can be endless. I've been dealing with HOA's of all types for the better part of twenty years, some are better, some are worse. Most make the rules by majority vote (I'd never live in one of those), others require a unanimous vote. In any case the rules are made by the owners and usually have some sort of enforcement provision. And remember, it's private property, they can make all the rules they want. Living there is an option but you gotta follow the rules.

There is a good chance that there is not really a rule about the carrying of firearms, somebody might have decided it is "policy". First thing I would do is obtain a copy of the bylaws, rules and regulations and any other documents the Association provides the homeowner and read them. Once you know the situation you can decide how to proceed. Be aware that as a "Non-owner" you probably won't have standing and will need to enlist the aid of your relative in order to have your voice heard.

[smithwessn]

Here is a link to another thread about firearms and HOA- http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...community.html (HOA Banning Gun Ownership in Private Community)

You may be able to find some helpful, related info.

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by twoguns

.....OK GUYS,

This has been a very informative discussion thus far. And here is an interesting twist: I said I am living in this community. I have signed nothing. NO contract or agreement. I happen to be living with a relative who owns the house. So where does that leave me?

As an individual do I not have inalienable rights? So because I happen to be living here does not mean that I signed my rights away. I signed nothing.

I have not read these bylaws or seen a copy of covenants but how do they effect me as someone who lives here but never agreed to such a thing?

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, judge, legislator nor a candlestick maker.

As you are a "guest" on some one else's property, you would be subject to any 'rules', 'codes', 'regulations' as set by the actual owners of (or, perhaps, at least, those who have sovereign "rights" to) the property you find yourself on. If you choose not to obey whatever such people declare as 'rules', 'regulations', 'guidelines', et cetera, you may find yourself in violation of trespassing laws (some of those 'could' put you in jail).

If your relative (who, owns, rents, or has 'rights' to whatever properties are involved) entered into any "agreements" (contracts) where they waived their civil (or any) rights, then you (as a guest of their property) may also be bound by such rules and regulations. It all depends on what is in the (if any) agreements/contracts that your relative signed.

Originally Posted by twoguns

On a different note, I would say that perhaps it could be viewed as an opportunity to try to educate some folks. The question becomes, for me anyway, do I have the patience to deal with trying to change people's thinking? The whole issue came to my attention after reading something in the newsletter this month. It got me thinking about a lot of things.

Absolutely.
.

[tes151]

I'm thinking you could A. Do all the research on the rules and such just to find out you are bound by them. Or B. Just CC and go about your business and don't worry about it. What nobody else knows won't hurt them. Plan B seems like the best option to me. Less stress and problems for you and your relatives.

[twoguns]

upon closer research of the actual written document, covenants forbid possession of firearms on any community property. This was initially put into effect in 1974. I cannot believe no one else has ever argued this matter.....or perhaps it has been argued and never adopted.

My natural inclination is to disregard and cc. who will know? ah but can it come back to bite me later involving some strange culmination of events unforeseen at this time?

Do argue the matter and risk losing?

Guess i need to sleep on this one.