LTCF Denial question; can I appeal?

[Al-Mumit]

Picked up the necessary appeal form today from L&I. Took it home to do as I didn't have what I needed in front of me, and will be sending it out by certified mail in the next day or so.

The form is rather basic; Date of refusal, what you're appealing & why. I'm thinking of putting something along the lines of this;

Reason for disapproval both incorrect and illegal. I neither was dishonest on my application nor am I a prohibited person as per PA code, title 18, section 6109 E.

I'll keep you guys updated on my progress. At this point, I'm going to fight them more on principle than anything else.

[Mocha Java]

Good luck. Also, do as I suggested: go down there (especially when they are doing gun permits) and see how it works so you can be better prepared.

[MontCo Alex]

Sounds good based on what you've told us.

-Alex

Originally Posted by Al-Mumit

Picked up the necessary appeal form today from L&I. Took it home to do as I didn't have what I needed in front of me, and will be sending it out by certified mail in the next day or so.

The form is rather basic; Date of refusal, what you're appealing & why. I'm thinking of putting something along the lines of this;

Reason for disapproval both incorrect and illegal. I neither was dishonest on my application nor am I a prohibited person as per PA code, title 18, section 6109 E.

I'll keep you guys updated on my progress. At this point, I'm going to fight them more on principle than anything else.

[gbrown221]

When Philly revoked me improperly. I listed my appeal reason as

"materials of fact not in law"

[NightRocker]

As I understand this, anything on you record under the age of 18 can not be held aganist you. Once you turn 18 years of age, that all is null and void. Unless you were charged as an adult. Should not have never been an issue. Just my opinion.

[Al-Mumit]

Originally Posted by gbrown221

When Philly revoked me improperly. I listed my appeal reason as

"materials of fact not in law"

I like that, vague enough as to not give away exactly what I'm arguing, but on topic enough to be true. That gives me something to think about...

As I understand this, anything on you record under the age of 18 can not be held aganist you. Once you turn 18 years of age, that all is null and void. Unless you were charged as an adult. Should not have never been an issue. Just my opinion.

AFAIK a conviction at any age doesn't disqualify you unless its something that'd apply to 6109E. So long as it isn't a drug crime, violent crime or other conviction that'd make you a prohibited person you're fine. Commissioner Ramsey just doesn't follow the law and denies folks arbitrarily and gets the go ahead from the city government to do so. Like I said, reason I was denied was that I 'lied' about my arrest record. I apparently failed to mention an arrest at 15-16 years old and was denied on those (irrelevant) grounds.

Whats sad is that even had I not been convicted had I been arrested and found not guilty or simply processed before the charges were dropped or something had I answered 'no' to the question "Have you been arrested?" I'd still be denied. Goes to show you what the law means to Mayor Nutter and his cronies.

[NightRocker]

Originally Posted by Al-Mumit

Picked up the necessary appeal form today from L&I. Took it home to do as I didn't have what I needed in front of me, and will be sending it out by certified mail in the next day or so.

The form is rather basic; Date of refusal, what you're appealing & why. I'm thinking of putting something along the lines of this;

Reason for disapproval both incorrect and illegal. I neither was dishonest on my application nor am I a prohibited person as per PA code, title 18, section 6109 E.

I'll keep you guys updated on my progress. At this point, I'm going to fight them more on principle than anything else.

Wishing you the best, Don't let them get away with playing word games. Over 18 your statment is true.

[Al-Mumit]

My research into this continues; today I used some down time at the library to flip through the Philadelphia code. Section 1-111 titled "Fraud or Deceit in Obtaining Licenses or Permits" seems to be where the PPD draw their power of denial based on these grounds from (in violation of state law of course). This laws incompatibility with 6109E is interesting as it doesn't seem to have been the intent of the writers 1-111 to specifically derail LTCF applicants. Interesting how the PPD have twisted things and decided that the city code overrides state law, eh?

[mrjam2jab]

Originally Posted by Al-Mumit

My research into this continues; today I used some down time at the library to flip through the Philadelphia code. Section 1-111 titled "Fraud or Deceit in Obtaining Licenses or Permits" seems to be where the PPD draw their power of denial based on these grounds from (in violation of state law of course). This laws incompatibility with 6109E is interesting as it doesn't seem to have been the intent of the writers 1-111 to specifically derail LTCF applicants. Interesting how the PPD have twisted things and decided that the city code overrides state law, eh?

Did they fine you as well as deny you?

§1-111. Fraud or Deceit in Obtaining Licenses or Permits. [6]

(1) Prohibited Conduct. No person shall make false, deceitful or misleading statements in applications for any license or permit issued under the provisions of The Philadelphia Code or knowingly violate any of the terms and conditions upon which any license or permit is issued.

(2) Penalties. The penalty for violation of the provisions of this Section, in addition to any other penalty provided by The Philadelphia Code, shall be a fine of three hundred (300) dollars plus costs of prosecution.

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Al-Mumit

My research into this continues; today I used some down time at the library to flip through the Philadelphia code. Section 1-111 titled "Fraud or Deceit in Obtaining Licenses or Permits" seems to be where the PPD draw their power of denial based on these grounds from (in violation of state law of course). This laws incompatibility with 6109E is interesting as it doesn't seem to have been the intent of the writers 1-111 to specifically derail LTCF applicants. Interesting how the PPD have twisted things and decided that the city code overrides state law, eh?

Odd that the ordinance doesn't apply to mayoral or city council elections....without fraud & deceit, what would the candidates say?