READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

again, just a friendly suggestion.

Will do, soon as I can.

[dpmaze]

carrying may be an area i am now confused with since the incident in dickson city. i once had a coneal carry license and i hid it well. but now i hear i could have been carrying all the time as long as it was visible without the license? what is the actual reason to be a resident of PA and get a conceal carry permit if one can carry without the license??

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by dpmaze

what is the actual reason to be a resident of PA and get a conceal carry permit if one can carry without the license??

so you can legally:

1. carry concealed
2. carry in a vehicle
3. carry in philly
4. carry during states of emergency

[Chevmeister]

U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 922
<CLIP>

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

(3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be
unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for
the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a
firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or
foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm
-
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school
zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
(iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual; or
(iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity.

(4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting
or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute
establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.

<clip>
full text can be found here

hope that helps.

[LittleRedToyota]

note that if you have a PA LTCF, you are exempted (in PA at least) from the GFSZ act chevmeister posted.

(on a side note, the original version of this law was struck down by the supreme court as unconstitutional. the current version is exactly the same as the current version except that congress added some wording basically claiming that they have the power to enact the law under the commerce clause.

given that the supreme court shot the first version down as overstepping the limits of the commerce clause, i guess congress thought they could make this action be covered under the commerce clause simply by stating that it was. of course, according to that theory, congress could do absolutely anything they want to simply by introducing it with a clause saying that it effects interstate commerce.

the current version has never been to the supreme court.)

[dpmaze]

but if an individual has a misdemeanor on his record, can he/she still possess a permit to carry or does that vary from county to county?

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by dpmaze

but if an individual has a misdemeanor on his record, can he/she still possess a permit to carry or does that vary from county to county?

It depends on the misdemeanor:

In General, if the maximum possible sentence is 12 months or more, then No. If less then 12 month, Yes.

If it was for a controlled substance (drugs) No.

If it was for any type of violent crime (Assault, DV, etc) No.

There are other stipulations as well, but those are the major ones. The best way to find out is to apply - the Sheriff has to tell you, in writing, why you were denied if you are. It only costs you the application fee.

[shooter357]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

note that if you have a PA LTCF, you are exempted (in PA at least) from the GFSZ act chevmeister posted.

(on a side note, the original version of this law was struck down by the supreme court as unconstitutional. the current version is exactly the same as the current version except that congress added some wording basically claiming that they have the power to enact the law under the commerce clause.

given that the supreme court shot the first version down as overstepping the limits of the commerce clause, i guess congress thought they could make this action be covered under the commerce clause simply by stating that it was. of course, according to that theory, congress could do absolutely anything they want to simply by introducing it with a clause saying that it effects interstate commerce.

the current version has never been to the supreme court.)

I thought the original version was changed because it made criminals out of people that were passing by a school with guns in the vehicle which conflicted with the commerce laws.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by shooter357

I thought the original version was changed because it made criminals out of people that were passing by a school with guns in the vehicle which conflicted with the commerce laws.

it was changed because SCOTUS found it to be uconstitutional...that congress had overstepped its authority under the commerce clause.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act

It was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided. This case, United States v. Lopez (1995), was the first time in over half a century that the Supreme Court limited Congressional authority to legislate under the Commerce Clause.

congress did not substantively change the law though. they just added wording to try to get SCOTUS to rule differently if it got challenged again.

from http://www.gunowners.org/fs9611.htm

Isn't this the same as the law that was passed in 1990?

The new law is virtually word-for-word the same as the previous law. When the first disastrous "gun free zones" provision was passed in 1990, it was almost immediately challenged. The effective date was January 27, 1991. By the first months of 1992, the events triggering the Lopez case, which ultimately overturned the law in the Supreme Court, had transpired. Aggressive enforcement was held in abeyance while the constitutionality of this language wound its way through the courts.

also from the same page

Will this law pass constitutional muster?

Those who rely on the courts to save us from this vast expansion of federal gun laws by declaring the law unconstitutional are playing a very dangerous game. Federal courts have not generally been friends of the Second Amendment.

Furthermore, many analysts, including the REPUBLICAN leadership on the House Judiciary Committee, are predicting that the superficial changes made in the new act cure the constitutional defects that allowed the 1990 safe schools bill to be overturned by the courts in the Lopez decision.

Specifically, the new law requires that the gun "affects interstate and foreign commerce." This "affects commerce" language is so broad that, in one case, a farmer was held to have "affected commerce" by growing and wholly consuming his own crops, on the basis that commerce would be altered if every farmer did the same. Obviously, given this interpretation, there would be no human activity that did not "affect commerce," and the change would have absolutely no impact on the implementation of the unconstitutional 1990 law.

Does this superficial change alter the constitutionality of the unconstitutional 1990 version? Some members of the Second Amendment community believe it does not. Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee argue just as adamantly that it does.

The real answer is that no one knows. It is possible that a court will overturn this statute. BUT, if it does not, we will be stuck with one of the most repressive gun bans on the record books.

here is a link to a PDF that has the changes marked:

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

[maddawgg]

Originally Posted by knight0334

Time and time again it is asked where is it legal or illegal to carry in PA. Below is a guide to where and how you can lawfully carry.

Off-limits places in PA and what makes them off-limits:
1. Court Facilities - State statute
2. Elementary and Secondary schools(K-12 grades), grounds and buildings whether the school is private or public - State statute, however there is a clause for affirmative defense for "other lawful purposes". Colleges are not prohibited by law, however the college could levy their own infractions like expelling the person or other civil punishments.
3. State Parks and other reserves maintained by the PA DCNR - by regulation
4. Casinos - by regulation
5. Certain Department of State buildings - by regulation
6. Places off-limits by Federal Law or regulation, IE: military installations(exceptions for hunting at some bases), Federal Government buildings, National Parks and other historic sights, after the security check point in airports.
7. Any private property where a landowner, tenant or person so authorized to maintain property has asked you to leave because you are carrying.

If your situation is not one of the above, then you are LEGAL.

===============

Private Properties, land owner and tenant rights prevail above all:
1. If the land/facility isn't owned by a municipality, township, county, state or fed government - then it is private property. In fact, even many properties maintained by a municipality of any level in PA is still private property - but the municipality has a lease or right-of-way. Most parcels are surveyed from the center of the road in front of your land - yes, if asked you can rightfully reply that you do own the road.
2. Malls, stores, movie theaters, restaurants, bars, etc are private property - they may ask you to leave if you are carrying a firearm, or the may ask you to leave if you aren't carrying a gun, they may ask you to leave because you weren't wearing a pink tutu with a tactical thigh holster, they may ask you to leave for ANY reason and you must comply.
3. Just because persons may come and go in a place as they please, doesn't make it "public" property. What makes property "public" or "private" is whether the land/real-estate is owned by an individual/company/corporation(private) or by the people as a whole(public).
4. Unless you have an Allodial Title, you do not own your land - you lease it from the government by means of property taxes. Your real-estate sits on borrowed land.
5. To sum things up, your land is actually public property that is leased by means of taxes in the Fee Simple/Feudal Title system allowing you to claim it as private. The government then requires right-of-ways from you for roads or other easements.

===============

Open carry:
If you can own a firearm, you may lawfully openly carry it on foot without a license. Except in a City of the First Class(1 million residents), you are required to have a license. Philly is the ONLY First Class city in PA, the next largest city, Pittsburgh, is about 550,000 residents away from being one.

===============

Ages to purchase or own a firearm:

Handguns, Pistols, Revolvers:
1. 21 to buy one from a FFL
2a. 18 if given or purchasing one from a parent or grandparent. No paperwork necessary
2b. 18 if given or purchasing from any other person who lawfully owns the handgun, BUT it must be transfered through a SHERIFF. FFL's can only use the instant background check for firearms that they have listed in their bound books - and for you to receive it from the FFL you must be 21. Since Sheriffs aren't required to do such - they may use the instant check required by PA law to do the transfer.**

Rifles and Shotguns:
1. 18 to buy from a FFL.


**See ATF Open Letter Below:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/122905pe...openletter.pdf

==================

Before you ask, NO loaded long guns can be carried or transported in a vehicle - whether you are licensed or not.

Does anyone know why it is illegal to carry concealed in a state park?