Any County Application for LTCF

[Mosinshooter762]

Considering the non-uniformity, and varying convenience, or inconvenience of the application for a License to Carry Firearms by county, why can't we lobby the legislature so that a resident in Pennsylvania can apply for a LTCF in any county in Pennsylvania? I can't think of any other common state licenses where you must go to the county you live in. This change may encourage uniformity, and convenience. This doesn't seem like a controversial idea, in the sense that it seems like all that would be required is a minor change in the wording of the law.

[marinakorp]

How about make a stnadard, allow for no level of ambiguity in issueance, timing, etc. and enforce it?

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

How about make a standard, allow for no level of ambiguity in issuance, timing, etc. and enforce it?

Just in case someone does not get the irony of (what I imagine is) your sarcasm, The Uniform Firearms Act in Pennsylvania already does this (set a uniform standard, including limitations and parameters, for LTCF applications).

Unfortunately, there is seemingly no enforcement whatsoever regarding the UFA when it comes to issuing agents (Pennsylvania county sheriffs and the Philadelphia police) and how they conduct LTCF applications.
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[edited to include:] Moreover, many (perhaps most) of those 60+ sheriffs (including Philly PD) are notorious for disseminating false and/or misleading information regarding Pennsylvania 'gun laws'.
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[Mosinshooter762]

Kuddos to both your observations.

I was thinking that any county application for LTFC might encourage uniformity by encouraging applicants to go to counties that have the most convenient process, hours, and locations. It seems that laws that require uniformity are abused, and require court battles to get sheriffs, and Chiefs of Police (Phila.) to change their ways. Whereas this would remove most of their obstacles, besides maybe distance (although depending on where you live this is debatable, especially if your neighboring county is very gun friendly) , as you would be able to go somewhere else. If it is good enough for a non-resident to be able to be able to apply to any county in Pennsylvania, why isn't it good enough for a resident? That is the question.

[R.Thompson]

Originally Posted by Mosinshooter762

I can't think of any other common state licenses where you must go to the county you live in.

I'm fairly sure that marriage licences need to be from the county in which the bride resides.

So maybe its because by getting a LTCF you considered to be "marrying" your firearm, so you need to get the licence in the county in which the firearms resides. And since you are living in sin, and the firearm resides with you, you therefore have to get it in the county in which you reside.

Similarly, if you get married out of state, you can get the licence in any county, although some states may stipulate that the licence must be issued in the county in which the marriage is to take place.

Ok, back to the topic in hand...

[BTA88]

I like it, but enforcement is key. We have the laws in place, but no court wants to go after their sheriff, and no LEO wants to enforce it.

Please note, the use of the word "no" is not meant to be concrete, obviously there are some courts that rule against the sheriff and some LEOs who are willing to enforce it, but the majority are not.

That said, be careful how far you push the issue of uniformity or we could end up having to go to the PSP for our licenses. That would not end well...

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by BTA88

That said, be careful how far you push the issue of uniformity or we could end up having to go to the PSP for our licenses. That would not end well...

Personally, I really don't like any ideas that seem to suggest that we mere citizens should be... well, 'afraid' of controlling our government - of bending the government to our (collective) will.

The notion that we shouldn't "rock the boat" or "upset the apple cart" (or any other similar such idioms) when it comes to citizens versus government is more than counterproductive, in my humble opinion - it is un-American.

The American government (at every level) works for us citizens. We citizens give them the powers and authority they have - and we (collectively, as constituents) can make changes to those powers and authority, even take those powers and authority away, any time we like.

As for the laws - we wrote them. We wrote them through a 'proxy' - through our elected legislators; legislators who were elected to represent us (the constituents of each legislative district).

If enough of us want them to change laws, policies, methods of enforcement, or whatever, then they better darn well do it. Or else - we'll 'fire' them.

Most 'politicians' seem to understand all of this perfectly well. At least, here in Pennsylvania.

Some politicians, however, seem to count on the general population believing that there is nothing that they (meaning: we citizens) can do to change or influence 'the way things are'. They seem to rely on the idea that you (we) will simply leave it all in their capable hands - after all, they know what is best for us and we're too stupid and ignorant to know what we want or what we should really have. Further, they count on us not trying to 'upset the apple cart' out of some misguided fear that they, as our lords and masters, will somehow punish us.

Horse hockey.
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[emsjeep]

Most counties won't take a non-resident's application...they will show you the door and expect you to walk through it...I got my Centre County and tried to ask MONTCO for their nice $46 plastic duplicate as I already had gone throught the whole process and just wanted to write them a check...not only did they refuse but they told me that if I was caught carrying in THEIR county with a non-resident PA LTCF that they would arrest me...there's a thread about it somewhere, I wrote them a letter with no response.

[eXceLon]

Perhaps LTCFs should be issued by the PSP, instead of by the county sheriff's office? I'm sure that the PSP administered office could still be physically located in your county building for convenience, but the process would be ran according to state standards and by state employees.

While we're at it, the whole "references" thing should be done away with as well. Most issuing authorities don't seem to bother contacting them anyways. And even if they did, the word of some random individual shouldn't be used as a basis to issue or deny a LTCF anyways. It's anathema to the concept of shall-issue. So to should any references to ones "character", as that just invites subjectivity and abuse. Either you're legally permitted, or you're not.

[BTA88]

Originally Posted by emsjeep

Most counties won't take a non-resident's application...they will show you the door and expect you to walk through it...I got my Centre County and tried to ask MONTCO for their nice $46 plastic duplicate as I already had gone throught the whole process and just wanted to write them a check...not only did they refuse but they told me that if I was caught carrying in THEIR county with a non-resident PA LTCF that they would arrest me...there's a thread about it somewhere, I wrote them a letter with no response.

I vaguely remember that thread. Did you get their thread on record? Sounds like clear cut official oppression to me.

Originally Posted by Bruce

Personally, I really don't like any ideas that seem to suggest that we mere citizens should be... well, 'afraid' of controlling our government - of bending the government to our (collective) will.

The notion that we shouldn't "rock the boat" or "upset the apple cart" (or any other similar such idioms) when it comes to citizens versus government is more than counterproductive, in my humble opinion - it is un-American.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm all for "rocking the boat" when it comes to my civil liberties, but if I'm going to rock the boat, it's not going to be by pushing for the control over my LTCF to be taken away from my great local sheriff (Terry Bergman. Great guy. A+) and said authority given to the PSP (who has repeatedly proven they cannot be trusted to uphold the People's rights, as an organizational whole). If I "rock the boat" or "upset the applecart, it's going to be to push for a Vermont style system. No LTCF, no CCP. If you can own a gun, you can carry it. Fighting to move from a compairably easy system to one that we can rest assured would be almost impossible to contend is not anything I'd like to aspire to. Go ask a subject of New Jersey how easy it is to get their power hungry state police to give them a carry permit.