Your Pennsylvania Gun Rights ~Handy flyer to carry with you.

[Mtbkski]

Duhhhh, every way I try opening it. It still says State Parks are illegal to carry in. It opens. But it isn't the new one.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Duhhhh, every way I try opening it. It still says State Parks are illegal to carry in. It opens. But it isn't the new one.

Read it more carefully... I thought the same thing, but it mentions that LTCF holders are exempt form the State Park prohibition.


Also, if it's the latest version, the bottom of each page should say "Revision 8 - November 2008"

[Mtbkski]

Still there when I open it. Here is what I copied off the page I opened.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:
- ANY Court facility
- ANY Federal facilities (unless authorized)
- State Parks (Licensees and law enforcement are exempt)

So I know I didn't miss read it. I have no idea how I keep opening this version. But it is all that is showing up for me.

[HiredGoon]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Still there when I open it. Here is what I copied off the page I opened.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:
- ANY Court facility
- ANY Federal facilities (unless authorized)
- State Parks (Licensees and law enforcement are exempt)

So I know I didn't miss read it. I have no idea how I keep opening this version. But it is all that is showing up for me.

Hmmmm, yes that is the latest version, with the November 2008 date. As I understand the wording... It is saying if you have a license to carry, you are exempt from the restriction to carrying in a state park. So if you have a PA LTCF you're OK to carry in a state park.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

Hmmmm, yes that is the latest version, with the November 2008 date. As I understand the wording... It is saying if you have a license to carry, you are exempt from the restriction to carrying in a state park. So if you have a PA LTCF you're OK to carry in a state park.

That's correct. This recent change gives us something we haven't had before (with the exception of Philadelphia)....an area where licensed carry is permitted, but unlicensed carry is NOT. Thus, it remain on the 'prohibited places' list, with the new (minor) changes noted. Unfortunately, we still do not have the full ability to exercise our rights in State Parks that we do throughout the rest of the state, but we have taken a small step in the right direction.

[Mtbkski]

Would love to see that wording changed on this one. I never read it that way. And I bet a lot of others will read it the way I did. I would recommend a change to something like this below.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:
- ANY Court facility
- ANY Federal facilities (unless authorized)
- State Parks (LTCF owners are allowed to carry)

Heck we all know that LEO's can just about carry anywhere. We aren't concerned where they can and can't carry. We want to know where we can.... So, take the part about the LEO out and make it so it relates to the average citizen. Maybe say "No OC allowed."

Just my two cents worth.

Other than that it is looking great.

[Mtbkski]

I just read it again. And I know what I thought.

I was under the impression that a licensee was something to do with Law Enforcement. Like a Park Ranger, Sheriff..... That is what I took that to mean. It kind of lets you lump Licensees and LEO together. I did it every time I read it.

Since this is a new law and I bet almost no one now knows that we are allowed to carry in a State Park. It would be nice to be more explicit and just relate to LTCF carries. Get the LEO part out.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:

- State Parks (Licensees and law enforcement are exempt)

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Would love to see that wording changed on this one. I never read it that way. And I bet a lot of others will read it the way I did. I would recommend a change to something like this below.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:
- ANY Court facility
- ANY Federal facilities (unless authorized)
- State Parks (LTCF owners are allowed to carry)

Heck we all know that LEO's can just about carry anywhere. We aren't concerned where they can and can't carry. We want to know where we can.... So, take the part about the LEO out and make it so it relates to the average citizen. Maybe say "No OC allowed."

Just my two cents worth.

Other than that it is looking great.

Except that the law doesn't say that open carry is prohibited, just carry by people who do not have an LTCF, so if you have an LTCF you would be OK to open carry. State parks are effectively lumped in with Philly in that respect.

[Mtbkski]

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

Except that the law doesn't say that open carry is prohibited, just carry by people who do not have an LTCF, so if you have an LTCF you would be OK to open carry. State parks are effectively lumped in with Philly in that respect.

OK, I didn't understand that. Thanks for Clarifying that for me.

Hmmmm, anyway we could clarify that. If I didn't understand. Someone new to carrying will never understand.

[gnbrotz]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Would love to see that wording changed on this one. I never read it that way. And I bet a lot of others will read it the way I did. I would recommend a change to something like this below.

Places Off-Limits While Carrying in PA:
- ANY Court facility
- ANY Federal facilities (unless authorized)
- State Parks (LTCF owners are allowed to carry)

Heck we all know that LEO's can just about carry anywhere. We aren't concerned where they can and can't carry. We want to know where we can.... So, take the part about the LEO out and make it so it relates to the average citizen. Maybe say "No OC allowed."

Just my two cents worth.

Other than that it is looking great.

I agree that the current wording is less than clear....unfortunately, it's a direct quote from the law. We discussed this quite a bit before making this revision, and since we're not qualified to offer legal advice or interpretation, we decided to simply pass on the exact information that has been provided to us via the legislative process.

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

Except that the law doesn't say that open carry is prohibited, just carry by people who do not have an LTCF, so if you have an LTCF you would be OK to open carry. State parks are effectively lumped in with Philly in that respect.

In our opinion, this is a gray area too. We see both sides of the argument, but are hesitant to make the blanket statement that "OC is ok if you're licensed." The new revision permits carry "as provided in subsection (a)", which as we know states that "A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth". It may be ok to OC if you're licensed, and it's also possible that you may cross paths with someone from DCNR who would make an issue of it. The new revisions are not clear enough for us to suggest that anyone should confidently push this point. I've pasted the new language below, so that anyone who hasn't actually seen it will have a chance to see just how unclear it is.

5 (m.2) Inconsistent provisions.--Notwithstanding the
6 provisions of section 7506 (relating to violation of rules
7 regarding conduct on Commonwealth property), 75 Pa.C.S. § 7727
8 (relating to additional limitations on operation), or the act of
9 June 28, 1995 (P.L.89, No.18), known as the Conservation and
10 Natural Resources Act, and regulations promulgated under that
11 act, a firearm may be carried as provided in subsection (a) by:
12 (1) a law enforcement officer whose current
13 identification as a law enforcement officer shall be
14 construed as a valid license to carry a firearm; or
15 (2) any licensee.