Another black eye for cops and CCW

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Also, surprising an officer is a lot more likely to get you shot than calmly informing him that you are carrying and telling him where your firearm is located.

How would i surprise him if my gun is concealed. Not telling the police officer means a near zero chance of him finding out you have a weapon on you. Telling him means your chances of him knowing are, well, 100%. Calmly informing the officer resulted in one friend of mine being assaulted by a state trooper and another held at gunpoint by philadelphia PD. Doesn't sound like it made them safer.

[Steve in PA]

No need to make the call, as I am a police officer in Luzerne County and the statement I made is correct. Running your plates or drivers license does NOT indicate if you have a LTC. Anyone who tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

They may believe its tied to them because they ask a 911 dispatcher to check if you have a LTC, but the dispatcher needs to run a seperate inquiry. Nothing is tied to your plates or drivers license.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

No need to make the call, as I am a police officer in Luzerne County and the statement I made is correct. Running your plates or drivers license does NOT indicate if you have a LTC. Anyone who tells you different does not know what they are talking about.

They may believe its tied to them because they ask a 911 dispatcher to check if you have a LTC, but the dispatcher needs to run a seperate inquiry. Nothing is tied to your plates or drivers license.

No offense, but this is what pisses me off about police officers. I respect what they do, I have friends and family who are officers, but I get tired of the ones who embarrass the rest of you men and women by being uneducated, uninformed, and arrogant. I get tired of hearing different information from every officer I talk to. How is the average citizen able to trust the police officers when you can't get a consistent answer on much of anything?

Originally Posted by MarcS

How would i surprise him if my gun is concealed. Not telling the police officer means a near zero chance of him finding out you have a weapon on you. Telling him means your chances of him knowing are, well, 100%. Calmly informing the officer resulted in one friend of mine being assaulted by a state trooper and another held at gunpoint by philadelphia PD. Doesn't sound like it made them safer.

There are a countless number of scenarios...we can agree to disagree. I'm just a believer that if you're not doing something you're not supposed to and you're respectful, you won't have any trouble.

But then again, look at this post:

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

Bad cops are unpredictable, planting evidence is not unheard-of, and lying about what happened is common.

Lots of citizens are beaten up and then accused of resisting arrest; lots of vehicles are searched despite protests and the cops swear that consent was given. The cops control the scene, they control the witnesses (by bringing in their fellow officers while keeping byustanders away). Look at Waco, where the crime scene was bulldozed to protect the ATF and FBI lies, and they got away with it.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

No offense, but this is what pisses me off about police officers. I respect what they do, I have friends and family who are officers, but I get tired of the ones who embarrass the rest of you men and women by being uneducated, uninformed, and arrogant. I get tired of hearing different information from every officer I talk to. How is the average citizen able to trust the police officers when you can't get a consistent answer on much of anything?

Only listen to steve.

There are a countless number of scenarios...we can agree to disagree. I'm just a believer that if you're not doing something you're not supposed to and you're respectful, you won't have any trouble.

Clearly, that's not the case. New officers come out of the academy with the idea planted in their head that every traffic stop could be their last and that ever person they come across is a hardened criminal until proven otherwise. This "the public is the enemy" stance is great from a officer survival standpoint, but not so great for community policing...or my friend who had a gun shoved in his face...or the one who had a trooper unlawfully enter his vehicle, pin him, and rip the gun out of his holster.

So, you can disagree with me, but what your saying isn't anything i didn't know before i knew better.

[jtkratzer]

Originally Posted by MarcS

Only listen to steve.



Clearly, that's not the case. New officers come out of the academy with the idea planted in their head that every traffic stop could be their last and that ever person they come across is a hardened criminal until proven otherwise. This "the public is the enemy" stance is great from a officer survival standpoint, but not so great for community policing...or my friend who had a gun shoved in his face...or the one who had a trooper unlawfully enter his vehicle, pin him, and rip the gun out of his holster.

So, you can disagree with me, but what your saying isn't anything i didn't know before i knew better.

I understand what you're saying, but you're telling me a story about two instances from the thousands and thousands of police officers out there. Police brutality and police doing things above/below/around the law more than likely make up far fewer instances than the actions of those "good cops."

I have had very little interaction with the police while I've done something wrong, but I've only had one bad experience with police officers where they were out of line, but that was back in college. Other than that, any time I've had questions for officers, the few times I have been pulled over, everything has been a breeze and gone smoothly. Then again, I haven't been pulled over since I started carrying either.

I know Steve as well as I know the people who live across and down the street who appear to be drug dealers. No offense, but why should I listen to some guy on an internet forum where anyone can post anything they want?

[chesire17201]

Originally Posted by jtkratzer

Whether or not it's required to inform and officer about whether or not you're carrying, I do. If I'm stopped by the police, especially at night, the interior lights go on and my hands are up. For one thing, when the police run your plates, it will show if you're a holder of a license to carry firearms. It just makes things less stressful on the officer and less likely that I will get shot.

.

Here in pa. you ltcf is not attached to your vehicle, registration, tags etc, BUT maybe you were thinking of VA. where it IS known that you have a permit when the police run your plate.

[Lougotzz]

I think if you have a corrupt cop there is nothing you will do to stop him. They are out there and exist. I would not say they are the norm. If they get away with stuff I am sure they have a file. They might get away with several items but if citizens keep making complaints to their supervisor a red flag will be drawn to them. A department doesnt want to be looked at like the guestopo(sp).

I think if you get pulled over do as gun lawery states. Comply dont sign anything and if you have been violated get a lawyer the next day. Get the officers name and badge number.

I have to say if you are stopped and you are respectful and show compliance to the officer from the get go he will look at you differenly. When they walk up to that car it is a wild card. They dont know what is going on. So if you have you DL in hand,hands in plain sight and are polite you probably wont have a problem.

I go back and forth on the issue of informing the LEO in the begining or if asked to exit the car.If you are asked to exit the car say sir I am legally armed, I have a LTCF and it is on my right hip,ect how do you want me to procede. This also shows compliance. You can do it as you give him your DL it is up to you.


I would like to here from Steven in PA what he likes as to informing of LTCF. I would aslo like to here from gunlawyer and see his perspective on this issue of informing.

Again, a corrupt cop not much you can do but all are not corrupt!

[Steve in PA]

What do I like?? Umm, vanilla shakes......my wife and I had vanilla and rasberry twists after shooting out off Rt 118..........

Oh, you mean as far as LTC. We all know that PA does not require the driver, or pedestrian for that matter to inform the officer he is carrying. I really don't care whether the driver informs me or not, since I have no control over this fact.

If you don't, you don't. If you do, you do. I'm sure I've stopped people who were carrying and never informed me. We took care of our business and went on our seperate ways. This is not paranoia, but when I approach a vehicle I always, I don't want to use the word assume........it always in the back of my mind that the driver could be armed, either legally or illegally. Its just the nature of the beast when doing this job. The first time you think different, may be your last.

But, if you do inform me that you are carrying, I would appreciate that fact. I personally wouldn't conduct the traffic stop any different either way (informed or not informed). Maybe ask you where the gun is, keep your hands away from that area, etc.

I would recommend that if during the stop you are requested by the officer to get out of the vehicle (perfectly legal) I would inform the officer at this time. I have never arrested anyone on a traffic stop that was found to be carrying. Meaning they were arrested for DUI, or some other offense, not for carrying a weapon.

Informing an officer that you are carrying has resulted in the driver maybe getting a warning instead of a citation. It is not 100%, nor is it a get out of jail card, but "usually" the officer appreciates the fact that the driver went the extra step to inform the officer, so the officer takes that into consideration and returns the favor. Again, it is not a sure thing, so don't say......"I told the officer I was carrying and he gave me a ticket anyway!"

[Lougotzz]

Steve how do the other officers that work with you feel about this subject? I am sure this has been talk about with fellow LEO's.

[Steve in PA]

Everyone in my department pretty much feels the same way. Since I'm also their firearms instructor, I make it a rule to go over certain things every year. Actually, I'm going over my firearms presentation now to make sure everything is up to date.

As far as other depts??? Can't help you there. I seriously doubt that any one in Wilkes-Barre PD will mirror my answer. Philly, Allentown???? Who knows.