where can and cant you carry

[fx4firefighter]

Okay so i got my new fire arm and my permit and i am finding out thats there a lot of places you can not carry even with you LTCF does anybody know where you are not allowed to carry beside the federal buildinds and airports???

[never_retreat]

And schools. Thats about is

[XD45]

school, such as elem, highschools, (basically all k-12 schools) are a no-no per state law... most colleges have their own regulations on them but i'm pretty sure everyone is different..

seeing your from pittsburgh i'm not sure about the big sporting events, but i'd assume its a nono, esp since the steelers pat u down, and i'd assume theres gonna be 5people on your back before u get the words i have a permit outta yur mouth.. i wouldnt carry anyway just because when i go i'm usually drinking heavy

[XD45]

do any lawyers around know about going into a store such as walmart, or even a shopping mall who may have a nogun policy but doesnt have a sign? are we just suppossed to know and look up every stores policy before we go in, or is it a if its not advertised in big bold letters infront of your face its not something that can be held against you?

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by XD45

do any lawyers around know about going into a store such as walmart, or even a shopping mall who may have a nogun policy but doesnt have a sign? are we just suppossed to know and look up every stores policy before we go in, or is it a if its not advertised in big bold letters infront of your face its not something that can be held against you?

On private property the have to tell you in person.
Signs mean squat in PA.

[fx4firefighter]

whast this about state park i go to Erie and always gointo teh state park there and i read that you cant carry there either

[MarcS]

courthouses, some federal buildings (the post office is okay), past the metal detectors in the airport.

Schools some say are a "grey area" even though I think the wording is crystal clear for allowing concealed carry for any lawful purpose.

everything else is okay. Some places may have their own rules but the most they can do is ask you to leave if the catch you.

[knight0334]

Off-limits in PA:

1. Court facilities
2. K-12 schools, whether private or public
3. Places deemed off limits by Federal law
4. National Parks and Monuments
5. Casinos (state regulation)
6. State Parks (state regulation)
7. certain Department of State buildings (state regulation)
8. after the security check point at airports
9. Any private property AFTER the tenant, landowner, etc has personally asked you to leave because of your firearm (trespass law)


Post Offices and Schools in PA have a similar clause allowing for "other lawful purposes", however there is no caselaw or statutory law defining "other lawful purpose". If carried at either place, and arrested - it could be fought that the law covered personal protection since it is a lawful purpose or fought because it is unconstitutionally vague.

By far, PA is one of the best places to carry in regards to off-limits areas. Only a few other states have less, and surprisingly they are states that rarely issue like NY and CA.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by fx4firefighter

Okay so i got my new fire arm and my permit and i am finding out thats there a lot of places you can not carry even with you LTCF does anybody know where you are not allowed to carry beside the federal buildinds and airports???

there actually aren't that many places in PA where you cannot carry. the only places PA defines as off limits above and beyond what the federal government defines as off limits are courthouses, and "public areas outside the capitol complex" at 116 and 124 pine street in harrisburg (see the Title 49 stuff included with the PA UFA at the link provided above), and state parks--sort of (see below).

AIRPORTS
----------------------------------------------------
you can carry in non-secure areas of the airport...the new allegheny county sheriff is full of crap--that text on the back of your LTCF is not correct.

federal law prohibits carrying in secure areas of airports*, but not in non-secure areas.

there is an allegheny county ordinance against carrying in any part of the pittsburgh airport. however, that county ordinance is rendered null and void by the state pre-emption clause in the pennsylvania uniform firearms act (commonly called the UFA). the pre-emption clause states:

§6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition.

(a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammuni*tion components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.

this means allegheny county cannot pass its own gun laws...which means the county ordinance against carrying in the airport carries no legal weight...which means that the text on the back of your LTCF is incorrect, and the county sherriff is full of crap.

(the full text of the UFA--along with some other relevant PA code--can be found here:

http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm)



SCHOOLS
----------------------------------------------------
futher, according to the PA UFA, it is not illegal, in and of itself, to carry in schools.

§912. Possession of Weapon on School Property.

(a) Definition.—Notwithstanding the definition of “weapon” in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), “weapon” for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.—A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense—It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

carrying a concealed handgun with an LTCF is a "lawful purpose" and, thus, covered under the bolded defense above.

note, however, that this seems to have never been tested in court and is considered by many to be a "grey area" even though the law is actually quite clear (sort like how some people seem to think the 2nd amendment is a grey area). there do not seem to be any cases where a charge for carrying on school property has actually made it to court to be decided.

you may not want to be the test case as it could end up costing a lot of money even if the courts do end up ruling correctly.



STATE PARKS
----------------------------------------------------
there is a DCNR regulation against carrying firearms in state parks. if you violate that regulation by carrying in a state park (and get caught) you have committed a summary offense just like if you litter in a state park. you have not actually violated any firearms laws, but you have violated the law that says you have to follow DCNR regulations for state parks when in state parks.



*an interesting aside to the federal prohibition against carrying in secure areas of airport. if anyone can find this in the federal codes, please point it out to me. i have yet to see it.

all i can find is a section that makes it illegal to try to board an airplane while carrying. clearly people have been successfully prosecuted for attempting to carry a weapon past the security checkpoint of an airport, so you clearly cannot do it. however, there doesn't actually seem to be a law against it...unless the courts interpret trying to get into a secure area of an airport as trying to board an airplane--which seems like a bit of a stretch.

if anyone can explain the legal foundation for not being able to carry in secure areas of airports, please do so...i am curious as to what it is. (i'm not commenting on whether or not one should be able to carry in secure areas of airport--that's a different topic--i'm just intellectually curious as to the legal basis for arresting people for doing it.)

[Azzy]

What about driving through state parks? I drive through South Park every day to and from work, and some major area roads go through park land.

Am I committing a crime by carrying?