Carrying a gun under the floormat???

[YBNORMAL]

Feel free to move this post if its in the wrong place.

I heard a story earlier this week about a friend (I'll call him "A")that was giving a friend of his (I'll call him "B")a ride out to the bar. The owner of the vehicle was driving in the beginning of the night and the passenger had his LTCF and was carrying.

sometime during the night they switched and the LTCF holder was driving and for whatever reason put his pistol under the floormat of the drivers side. They switched seats due to the fact that the LTCF holder was too stupid drunk to drive.

At some point my friend noticed that the pistol was there and thats about the end of whats relevant for this question.

I know the procedure that "B" should have taken when taking his firearm off his hip.

what I want to know is what are the legal ramifications for "A" and "B" in this situation had they been caught.

I have spoken with "A" and told him he could have gotten into alot of trouble for what "B" did and should be angry as such.

I talked to "B" as well but didnt feel I drove home the point well enough as i didnt have any Law to back it up. I looked on the forum and searched as best I could but couldnt find anything relevant, Please help me educate "A" and "B".

[falcn]

Maybe I am wrong about this, but if they were both still in the vehicle they were ok.

[YBNORMAL]

Well, I feel kind of stupid then.........what about if LTCF owner got out of the vehicle?

[mrjam2jab]

Originally Posted by YBNORMAL

Well, I feel kind of stupid then.........what about if LTCF owner got out of the vehicle?

If LTCF is no longer in vehicle...then yes now there's a problem...

[YBNORMAL]

OK, where can I find the statutes to show to these two the gravity of what "might have happened"

[baker]

Well if the ltcf holder got out of the car and the other person was still in the car with a loaded firearm that would be illegal. You need a ltcf to carry a loaded handgun/pistol in a vehicle. If I wasn't replying on my phone I could link you or copy the section of the law that covers this but I think it might be in the paopencarry pamphlet.

[falcn]

Originally Posted by YBNORMAL

OK, where can I find the statutes to show to these two the gravity of what "might have happened"

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-fi...oncealed-carry

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
...

[ehidle]

I seem to remember a thread talking about "constructive possession" somewhere - that if an item is readily accessible to someone, then in the eyes of the law that someone is in "constructive possession." This is the legal theory the JBTs use to charge underage persons with possessing alcohol simply for being at a party where alcohol is present, even though they are not in actual possession of any alcohol.

What I believe this means is that, if a cop were to find that there was a loaded firearm in a vehicle that was readily accessible without obstruction to a person in the vehicle who did not have an LTCF, then that person would be illegally carrying by way of their "constructive possession" of the firearm.

IANAL, but I can easily see where the State JBT would probably try to make an argument similar to this about exactly WHO in the vehicle was in possession of the firearm.

I could also be completely wrong about this...

[jcabin]

Originally Posted by mrjam2jab

If LTCF is no longer in vehicle...then yes now there's a problem...

Well it's his vehicle so he can keep his gun in it. Like if you both got out to go somewhere thats fine, but the non-ltcf can't drive the vehicle with the gun in it alone.

[falcn]

Originally Posted by jcabin

Well it's his vehicle so he can keep his gun in it. Like if you both got out to go somewhere thats fine, but the non-ltcf can't drive the vehicle with the gun in it alone.

In this story presented the vehicle belonged to the non-LTCF holder and he was giving Mr. LTCF a ride.

Originally Posted by ehidle

I seem to remember a thread talking about "constructive possession" somewhere - that if an item is readily accessible to someone, then in the eyes of the law that someone is in "constructive possession." This is the legal theory the JBTs use to charge underage persons with possessing alcohol simply for being at a party where alcohol is present, even though they are not in actual possession of any alcohol.

What I believe this means is that, if a cop were to find that there was a loaded firearm in a vehicle that was readily accessible without obstruction to a person in the vehicle who did not have an LTCF, then that person would be illegally carrying by way of their "constructive possession" of the firearm.

IANAL, but I can easily see where the State JBT would probably try to make an argument similar to this about exactly WHO in the vehicle was in possession of the firearm.

I could also be completely wrong about this...

I'm not buying that for a $1. It doesn't say where you must carry the gun when in the car if you have an LTCF.