Explain the dos and donts of carrying in school zones please....

[TravisBickle]

OK I'm confused. The original Federal "Gun Free School Zone" act was overturned by the SCOTUS but later reintroduced with slightly different wording, as I understand it.

Also as I understand it, PA law requires only that you don't enter the grounds of a K-12 school while carrying.

So what happens if I'm driving along in an unfamiliar neighborhood and happen to pass by a school? Am I in violation of any "gun free school zone" laws? What if I'm on foot? What if I'm a passenger in a car and have no control or prior knowlege of the exact route the driver will take?

WHAT IF MY HOUSE IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM A SCHOOL???????

Assuming it is a violation of Federal law to carry within 1000' of a school, how exactly does a local LEO handle violations of Federal law? Does he make an arrest and then call the FBI to take you away?

[MarcS]

In PA you may legally carry in a school for "other lawful purposes" as far as i'm concerned self-defense is a lawful purpose or the county wouldn't have issued me a carry permit on those grounds.

On the bright side, if you try it and get caught, you can go to court and give us some caselaw on what "other lawful purposes" are. It will only cost you your life savings and ass virginity while you wait in jail, but we will be grateful.

[awkx]

I'm not a lawyer, but based on the text of the legislation, it seems that it is not as draconian as you fear.

Originally Posted by MorganB

So what happens if I'm driving along in an unfamiliar neighborhood and happen to pass by a school?

The law only applies if "the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe" that he is in a school zone. If you accidently enter a school zone, I imagine that you would be safe.

Originally Posted by MorganB

WHAT IF MY HOUSE IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM A SCHOOL???????

The legislation does not apply to "private property not part of school grounds".
As for carrying the gun to a range on public roads, I see two options:
(1) The legislation also does not apply "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license".
(2) Carrying a gun in school zone is permitted if the gun is "(I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle".

how exactly does a local LEO handle violations of Federal law? Does he make an arrest and then call the FBI to take you away?

I don't know how this would work legally, but as a practical matter, I imagine that LEOs in freedom-hating cities would do everything in their power to screw you, and that LEOs in gun-friendly places may turn a blind eye.

[Fraggle09027]

Originally Posted by awkx

I'm not a lawyer, but based on the text of the legislation, it seems that it is not as draconian as you fear.


The law only applies if "the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe" that he is in a school zone. If you accidently enter a school zone, I imagine that you would be safe.

I drive past two schools on the way to work knowingly. I don't believe I am breaking any laws. Am I mistaken (leaving the lawful purpose out).

[Chevmeister]

18 USC Section 922. Unlawful acts
(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
firearm -
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
premises is authorized by school authorities.

US Law governing School zones, Pa Performs a background check so you are clear with a LTCF to carry per Federal law.


Pa UFC

§912. Possession of Weapon on School Property.
(a) Definition.—Notwithstanding the definition of “weapon” in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), “weapon” for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.—A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense—It shall be a defense that the weapon is pos¬sessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose. (Added by L.1980, Act 167(1), eff. 12/15/80.)


§6109. Licenses.

(a) Purpose of license -A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.


From the PA UFA. States for other lawful purpose, also from the UFA states the purpose of the LTCF is to carry a firearm concealed on or about one's person. From what I gather concealed is ok, open carry i dont know if would fit under this arguement.

[awkx]

Originally Posted by Fraggle09027

I drive past two schools on the way to work knowingly. I don't believe I am breaking any laws. Am I mistaken (leaving the lawful purpose out).

If you have a Pennsylvania LTCF, you're okay in regards to the federal Gun-Free School Zone act. If you don't have a LTCF, then according to PA law, you're supposed to keep your gun unloaded when in the car anyhow.

[Azzy]

Ive also heard the argument that school busses are "gun free" zones, and what happens if you end up stopping because one has kids loading or unloading. Or get stuck in traffic near one?

Crafty idea someone had to make instant felons?

Heck, on an offshoot, I travel through a county park to get to work. Am I breaking the law there?

(I wish I had the finances to take these laws to court... Sounds like they limit our 2A rights... abd better sense of judgement. Good going congress, you created the biggest soft trgets in the country)

[farmplinker]

Resurrecting this thread.

Originally Posted by awkx

If you have a Pennsylvania LTCF, you're okay in regards to the federal Gun-Free School Zone act. If you don't have a LTCF, then according to PA law, you're supposed to keep your gun unloaded when in the car anyhow.

OK. It appears anyone with a LTC is fine.

But the federal GFSZ law doesn't exclude those non-license-holders who have an unloaded gun in their car, only those who have an unloaded gun in a locked container. So, let's say you're going hunting and you have your unloaded shotguns or rifles in soft-sided cases, and you stop at a donut shop within 1000 feet of a school. Or simply drive past a school. It seems to me you are violating the GFSZ law. I suppose a locked trunk could possibly qualify as a locked container, but what about someone in an SUV or pickup? Or someone who lays their guns on the back seat of their car?

I'm betting this happens a thousand times a day in PA in hunting season. Am I interpreting this wrong?

What if you are hunting in fields and get within 1000 feet of a school with your loaded gun? I'm sure this happens all the time, too. Heck, I've hunted that close to a school before (and before I had my carry license).

Does anyone ever get busted for violating the GFSZ law?

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by farmplinker

Does anyone ever get busted for violating the GFSZ law?

i am nearly 100% sure no one has been busted for violating version 2 of the federal GFSZ law.

some guy got busted for violating the first one. the case went to the supreme court and the supreme court shot it down.

so congress added some stupid wording about how they think that guns in school zones somehow effect interstate commerce to try to do an end run around the supreme court...otherwise, the law is essentially the same as the one that was ruled unconstitutional.

however, (i'm almost certain) no one has been prosecuted for violating version 2...which is likely the only reason it has not been shot down, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act
http://www.gunowners.org/fs9611.htm

[Chevmeister]

I carry whenever im out with my wife and kids.
I took my wife with me when i voted, my poling place is in a school.
I went with my wife and both sons to a family fun night at their school.
The world didnt end!

As far as the law states, you are only guilty of a crime if you carry a gun for a purpose that isnt legal. From what i take under state law the lawful purpose stated is to carry a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth. So in my laymans view open carry would land you in hot water.