When is it not CC?

[CommonHighrise]

This is in relation to HB1845 going into effect, namely it's stipulation that to carry a firearm in a State Park, you must have a LTCF and it must be concealed.

Im looking for some form of legal guideline that determines when a firearm becomes 'exposed'.

The reason being is that I am both a 24/7 OCer, and avid hiking enthusiast, and I like to go to the local trails at French Creek State Park. I forsee an encounter between myself an a restrictive DCNR officer, and I would like some form of official definition to quote to defend myself with.

So far the best I have is a dictionary definition;
con⋅ceal
   /kənˈsil/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-seel] –verb (used with object)
1. to hide; withdraw or remove from observation; cover or keep from sight.

From that, I would say that the gun simply must be physically obscured. Hence, I could make an OWB holster cover out of some thin silnylon, similar to a ruck dust cover, and be 100% legal.

[TXDMERC73]

you can use either a inside tuck holster for CC or use your OC holster cover it with a t shirt thats extra longer so it full covers it up and leaves you enough room to move and still keep it covered ,thats what i so i buy XXL shirt no more X large sop i can use my OC holster and cover it up .

[CommonHighrise]

Originally Posted by TXDMERC73

you can use either a inside tuck holster for CC or use your OC holster cover it with a t shirt thats extra longer so it full covers it up and leaves you enough room to move and still keep it covered ,thats what i so i buy XXL shirt no more X large sop i can use my OC holster and cover it up .

Thing is, I dont want to cover it up. I OC all the time, and since I do it for the educational aspect, not to mention my gun doesnt 'do' concealment, I have no desire to cover it up.

What I need is to know how far I can push it in State Parks before it becomes unconcealed. To know that, I need to know exactly what line they draw to differentiate between exposed and concealed.

[mjf]

Originally Posted by CommonHighrise

Thing is, I dont want to cover it up. I OC all the time, and since I do it for the educational aspect, not to mention my gun doesnt 'do' concealment, I have no desire to cover it up.

What I need is to know how far I can push it in State Parks before it becomes unconcealed. To know that, I need to know exactly what line they draw to differentiate between exposed and concealed.

If they notice it, it's not concealed... and you'll be hassled, maybe... All depends on who approaches you....

[tl_3237]

I don't think there's any analytical definition in the law so you have to fall back on the 'reasonable person in the same or similar circumstances' rule.

If the presence of the firearm is obvious to a reasonably observant person then, IMO, its not CC.


As mjf said, it all depends on who approaches you and their subjective judgement will determine whether you get hassled. And if you're hassled it all comes down to the subjective judgement of the judge.

My suggestion, conceal it well or prepare to become a test case.

[vmiwoulfe]

From a non PA state but still relevant:

62.1-04-01. Definition of concealed. A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily discernible. A firearm or dangerous weapon is considered concealed if it is not secured, and is worn under clothing or carried in a bundle that is held or carried by the individual, or transported in a vehicle under the individual's control or direction and available to the individual, including beneath the seat or in a glove compartment. A firearm or dangerous weapon is not considered concealed if it is:

1. Carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or substantially visible;
2. Locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle;
3. Carried in the field while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or target shooting, whether visible or not; or
4. Carried by any person permitted by law to possess a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to that person's home or place of business, or to a place of repair, or back from those locations.
5. A bow and arrow, an unloaded rifle or shotgun, or an unloaded weapon that will expel, or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air, or compressed gas including any such weapon commonly referred to as a BB gun, air rifle, or CO 2 gun, while carried in a motor vehicle.

[BerksCountyDave]

Didn't that law get reversed/shot down, therefore making it still illegal to carry in state parks all together?

[mjf]

Originally Posted by BerksCountyDave

Didn't that law get reversed/shot down, therefore making it still illegal to carry in state parks all together?

No, rather carrying a concealed firearm is now preempted by state law. DCNR still has their regulations on uncased firearms in place, so you could still violate the old policy by OCing...

[HiredGoon]

Oh, nevermind

[1861]

Originally Posted by BerksCountyDave

Didn't that law get reversed/shot down, therefore making it still illegal to carry in state parks all together?

I believe you are thinking of the National parks.