Sheriff's Comments when Issuing LTCF

[Alchymist]

After moving to Juniata county last year, I finally got around to applying for my LTCF. Personnel in the sheriff's office were very polite and friendly, and told me it would take approximately 2 weeks. Sure enough, about 2 weeks later is was in the mail.

Along with the license was a form letter addressed to "Dear Licensee", offering some "words of caution and advice". There were 11 numbered points, most of which were common sense stuff, and helpful. There were two, however, that left a lot to be clarified. I thought I'd post those two just for comments ....

"(2) Overt and unnecessary display of your firearms in public places can cause alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens, and create embarassing situations which could result in the revocation of your permit".

"(4) Your permit does not exempt you from obeying any local statues or ordinances governing behavior with firearms".

I was just wondering how a fellow citizen could create a situation whereby my license would be revoked, and what kind of local ordinances or statues would exist that would not be preempted by the state? Anyone shed some light on these two situations?

[markheck1]

that seems like a standard thing with most of the licenses.....

And as far as the second thing, the state says localities, municipalities etc cannot pass laws about possession, but nothing about use.....I think that's what they are talking about, like laws against discharging firearms and the like.

[Pa. Patriot]

This form letter is/was utilized by several counties. If you do some searching you should find numerous threads discussing these "advice" letters. Again, due to numerous counties using them...

As you noticed, the info is erroneous. The best way to rectify it is sit down with your sheriff and explain it.

Here are a couple examples of doing exactly that:

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ight=savokinas (My meeting with Luzerne County Sheriff Savokinas (8/22/08))

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...orning+sheriff (My early morning encounter with the new Sheriff.)

[The Unknown 1087]

My county (Lancaster) doesn't say anything like this at all which I am glad. I am just curious what happens if people that get ahold of your name call the sheriff's office and say "so and so was carrying openly and caused panic!!!!"

*cough* wawa *cough*

[DeadHead]

Juniata County is generally a nice and easy - no bullshit involved - area to get your permit. Fill out the form, give 'em money, say cheese, and check you mailbox - assuming that you've got a "clean" record, as you must have had. Years ago, they would even send you a blank (no picture attached) signed copy in case you lost the laminated one with the photo. People inside were always friendly when I was there too.

As far as a great "example" of the two points mentioned that will get you on trouble: walk down to courthouse (can't carry inside), pull up your shirt to show your piece to everyone and yell " hey everyone - I have a gun!" You'll end up across the street in Lyter's office pretty quick and you can say bye bye to your new permit. These statements are made so a person isn't pulling guns on people for no reason and are not taking firearms into places where you can't "carry."

In all honestly, this county in general doesn't have a problem with firearms and, even if you read the newspaper police report sections, you rarely see anything mentioning firearm related charges. By the way - congrats on your permit.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by DeadHead

As far as a great "example" of the two points mentioned that will get you on trouble: walk down to courthouse (can't carry inside), pull up your shirt to show your piece to everyone and yell " hey everyone - I have a gun!" You'll end up across the street in Lyter's office pretty quick and you can say bye bye to your new permit. These statements are made so a person isn't pulling guns on people for no reason and are not taking firearms into places where you can't "carry."

That very well may be the "intent"... but those statements as printed have a much larger interpretation factor to include simple, lawful open carry.

If that was their intent they should have written it much more specifically. The way they are written is bordering on official oppression by implying OC is not lawful.

[TXDMERC73]

Originally Posted by Alchymist

After moving to Juniata county last year, I finally got around to applying for my LTCF. Personnel in the sheriff's office were very polite and friendly, and told me it would take approximately 2 weeks. Sure enough, about 2 weeks later is was in the mail.

Along with the license was a form letter addressed to "Dear Licensee", offering some "words of caution and advice". There were 11 numbered points, most of which were common sense stuff, and helpful. There were two, however, that left a lot to be clarified. I thought I'd post those two just for comments ....

"(2) Overt and unnecessary display of your firearms in public places can cause alarm and adverse reactions by your fellow citizens, and create embarassing situations which could result in the revocation of your permit".

"(4) Your permit does not exempt you from obeying any local statues or ordinances governing behavior with firearms".

I was just wondering how a fellow citizen could create a situation whereby my license would be revoked, and what kind of local ordinances or statues would exist that would not be preempted by the state? Anyone shed some light on these two situations?

thats what i was told by a LEO when i asked about OC, looks like they dont want to have to waste their time...checking it out if someone is cleared to carry. that sucks . can they really do that if i accidently have my shirt up while carrying?

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by TXDMERC73

thats what i was told by a LEO when i asked about OC, looks like they dont want to have to waste their time...checking it out if someone is cleared to carry. that sucks . can they really do that if i accidently have my shirt up while carrying?

An LEO can ask you anything he wants. And you can refuse to answer or ignore him.
An LEO can not detain you without RAS (Reasonable articulate suspicion that criminal activity is afoot).
OC, by itself, does not = RAS per Pa. law, & Pa. supreme court case law.

OC is not a valid reason to revoke ones LTCF.

Please do some research in the open carry section for more details on these points.

[Fudmottin]

The form letter I got last time I renewed said I should consider not carrying for reasons I don't recall. I can tell you that "brandishing" is a crime. But that is true pretty much everywhere regardless of LTCF.

My belief is that when you carry, even a cop shouldn't be able to spot your gun. One thing that will give you away is if you keep touching it because you haven't gotten used to carry yet.

[.FourthFifth]

I thought PA had no brandishing laws?

And as for Juniata county, I lived there for 19 years. I actually kind of miss it now. Maybe I'll be moving back at the end of the summer, but as for firearms. It's a hick county to be sure. Very laid back. Worry not.