Glimcher negative on Firearms and Self-protection

[Howard Bullock]

Glimcher Realty Trust (http://www.glimcher.com/portfolio/property_list) the owner/operator of the Colonial Park Mall is negative on OC/CC.

Below is an an email thread with Glimcher. After sending my orignal email to the local manager and receiving a reply which is below, I have not yet received a reply to my response which was sent on Monday Mar 30.

March 29, 2009

Dear Ms. Williams;

I am writing to obtain information on Glimcher policies related to how management would treat mall customers which exercise their right to the legally carry firearms for the protection of themselves and their families while on managed properties.

Does Glimcher have written policies to address the legal carrying of firearms by customers? If so, are the policies standardized for all managed properties or do specific properties have specific policies? Can you provide copies of the policies?

Please describe how you would handle an open or concealed carry event at the Colonial Park Mall?

If you can not properly address these questions please provide the contact information of a person that can.

Sincerely,
Howard A. Bullock

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Mary Williams wrote:

Dear Mr. Bullock:

Thank you for your interest in Colonial Park Mall. In response to your question regarding our policy regarding firearms, we do not allow weapons of any kind on our property. This policy is the first line item on our Standards of Conduct which is posted at all of the mall entrances. (It is also available in handheld format and can be obtained from our Security staff and at the Guest Services booth.) This rule, which is a corporate policy and is enforced company-wide is consistent with many other venues such as schools, banks, government buildings, libraries, sporting events, etc. Although we invite the public on to the property, it is privately owned and therefore governed by the landlord. The safety of our customers is of utmost importance to us and we believe this policy is in the best interest of all of our shoppers and employees.

Should we encounter a patron or employee carrying a weapon on Colonial Park Mall property, our security guards would simply inform the person of our policy and ask him/her to leave the property. They are, of course, welcome to return to the mall immediately after removing their weapon from the premises.

Please feel free to call or write should you have additional questions.
Sincerely,

___
Mary Williams, CMD
General Manager
Colonial Park Mall

Rt. 22 & Colonial Rd
Harrisburg, PA 17109
www.colonialparkmall.com
Phone: 717.545.0357
Fax: 717.545.4696
mary.williams@glimcher.com

Thanks for the response.

I and many other citizens would disagree with the conclusion that your policy is in the best interests of your customers and employees. History has shown that people in other locations where legally carried sidearms are not permitted such those venues you list have been victims of criminals that never will adhere to such a policy. In fact, these criminals seem to target these types of venues just be cause the likelihood of armed resistance is unlikely. In Pennsylvania, firearms are permitted in some of the venues you listed.

These web sites can provide additional information on carry laws and related topics.

http://opencarry.org/
http://www.pafoa.org/

Many thousands of members and visitors to these sites as well as others by word of mouth review responses such as these. They then base their choice of shopping locations on the respect shown to them and their rights which includes their right to protect themselves.

I ask that this policy be reviewed and a policy that relies on each states laws be adopted. This would show that the customer is valued and that Glimcher respects the rights of the people. As you stated, the final decision is governed by the owner's property rights, but the owners would be perceived in a much better light by the citizenry if they respected the customer's rights.

[kurt 10/22]

Originally Posted by Howard Bullock

March 29, 2009

Dear Ms. Williams;

I am writing to obtain information on Glimcher policies related to how management would treat mall customers which exercise their right to the legally carry firearms for the protection of themselves and their families while on managed properties.

Does Glimcher have written policies to address the legal carrying of firearms by customers? If so, are the policies standardized for all managed properties or do specific properties have specific policies? Can you provide copies of the policies?

Please describe how you would handle an open or concealed carry event at the Colonial Park Mall?

If you can not properly address these questions please provide the contact information of a person that can.

Sincerely,
Howard A. Bullock

May I ask what prompted your inquiry ?

[Howard Bullock]

Originally Posted by kurt 10/22

May I ask what prompted your inquiry ?

After carrying concealed for 28 years, reading a thread about OC at The Capital City Mall, and participating in the OC outing at Venice Pizza in Lancaster; I was curious what the response would be at the Colonial Park Mall without actually walking into the mall with an open carry.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by Howard Bullock

After carrying concealed for 28 years, reading a thread about OC at The Capital City Mall, and participating in the OC outing at Venice Pizza in Lancaster; I was curious what the response would be at the Colonial Park Mall without actually walking into the mall with an open carry.

This has been discused many times.
"Why ask permission to do somehing lawful"?

If they have a polcy like that, find out about it IF you are asked to leave.

[Howard Bullock]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

This has been discused many times.
"Why ask permission to do somehing lawful"?

If they have a polcy like that, find out about it IF you are asked to leave.

I did not ask permission, I asked what policies they had in place and how they would treat a gun carrying customer.

It has also been stated over and over that property rights trump carry rights. So why would one want to be asked to leave just to determine a result that can be determined by asking a question? I then provided my perspective and requested change.

[kurt 10/22]

Originally Posted by Howard Bullock

So why would one want to be asked to leave just to determine a result that can be determined by asking a question?

An entity as large as the owners of the mall probably already had a policy on firearms. But.......

The danger is asking the question, and creating a policy where none existed.

You might get, "Well, we never really thought about it until now", and they decide to institute a no gun policy.

[IV_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Howard Bullock

I did not ask permission, I asked what policies they had in place and how they would treat a gun carrying customer.

It has also been stated over and over that property rights trump carry rights. So why would one want to be asked to leave just to determine a result that can be determined by asking a question? I then provided my perspective and requested change.

Because, as has also been stated over and over, when you ask permission (like you did, whether you think so or not) the answer almost always is no, like you were just told. However, many places won't actually bother someone, unless it's brought to their attention. Be that by a customer complaining, or someone writing their office and asking.

[GL23]

[indianjack]

Seems to me that the question need not be asked if they indeed have signs posted at all the entrances as was stated.

[Howard Bullock]

Contrary to the contents of the email, no signs were posted.