School/CCW Question.....

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

So I have a carry question……
I carry nearly constantly ( when out of house and not at work ). I have a whole litter of kids ( 4ea – 14mo, 2yrs, 5yrs, 6yrs ) and we’ve already started the “school” thing. I may break rules in life, but I adhere to the “no carry in/at/around schools”.
So…….I’m carrying at the house, I carry into Wal-Mart, then Lowe’s, then the bank, and then I gotta pick up the oldest youngin’ from the elementary school.
What I’ve been doing is remove the firearm from the holster and slide ‘er under the driver’s seat and go pick her up ( car is LOCKED ). Now, the car is in the elementary school parking lot, so TECHNICALLY, I’m breaking the law…..right?

But c’mon! I have to leave the firearm behind while I run my errands so that I comply in the school parking lot????

My fear is that my empty holster may someday show/print, freak out somebody/faculty, discover an empty holster, but meanwhile the responding authorities find the firearm under the seat.

Am I reading too much into this?

What do/would you folks do?

[Frenchy]

Although many laws are ambiguous many are clear if you dont try to read more into them. http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...tate.php?st=pa

The words "IN" and "ON" must be read in the right perspectives. You may not have a gun IN a school, no where does it talk about the parking or a car in the parking.
It is unlawful to possess any firearm on school property but it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course. or is possessed for other lawful purpose. Other lawful purpose is what your CCW is about, you have the legal right to "defend" your self.
SCHOOL ZONES
Is it illegal for CCW permit holders to carry guns into schools?

Pennsylvania - State law does not clearly prohibit people from carrying hidden handguns into schools if they have an easily-obtained CCW permit. The law provides a defense for CCW permit holders to carry a gun into school "for lawful purpose." http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...p?st=pa#school Grant you, when you pass the security check, you will be asked to produce proof that you absolutely need this to protect your self in a school. Chances are the LEO will not know of this law and take the it to the extreme 'If' you try to carry inside the school. The law does allow you to carry/store in your car and as the car does not need to be inspected to enter the parking "storing" the gun under your seat is probably the next best alternative.

As for the leather. You can wear all the leather you want legally.

What you probably want/need to do, is talk to the principal, make sure he understands the law for CCW, tell him/her that you carry legally and understand the complexities of this situation. Then suggest that you are willing to leave your gun in your car, and that you will still be wearing your leather. If you do this properly, the Principal or school directors will most likely understand you are doing what needs to be done and be aware nad ready of any future complaints that may occur.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Frenchy

The words "IN" and "ON" must be read in the right perspectives. You may not have a gun IN a school, no where does it talk about the parking or a car in the parking.
It is unlawful to possess any firearm on school property but it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course. or is possessed for other lawful purpose. Other lawful purpose is what your CCW is about, you have the legal right to "defend" your self.

Frenchy,
A point of issue, FWIW: you discuss the difference between "in" and "on" claiming IN is a no-no and ON is ok, but then quote the law which states it's unlawful to possess a firearm "ON school property".

Gary,
My interpretation of the law, which Frenchy quoted, is as follows:

Technically, the parking lot is on the property. Given this, it could be illegal to even keep the gun in the car, regardless of the Principal's consent. The only "out" would be if carrying is "in conjunction with a lawful supervised activity or course", and I doubt that non-LEOs will be categorized as such while on the premises. IMHO, that exception was written in so that if LEOs had to intervene in a dangerous situation, they weren't breaking the law stepping onto the property armed.

Just my $0.02.

[Lougotzz]

My opinion on this is. There is a defense in the law. But it is a grey area. I would not bring attention to myself. I would not go to the principle. Concealed is concealed. Me personally I dont carry on or in school property. I just dont want the hassels. If you choose to ,get a real small piece and remain in stealth mode. You can contact the attorney general and see what he says.From what I have read PA does not make a clear opinion on this. You can also contact a private attorney and see what he/she says. Good luck.

Just for the record. I am not a lawyer and I do not want you to think this is legal advise. This is just my opinion.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

I don't want to even try to carry into the school. I just feel choked if, during a busy day of errands or "away-from-house" business, i must leave the firearm home if one of the stops is a school. For now, my carry is discreet enough that my kids don't know when I carry.
And it's not like you can park out on the road curbside cus the "school-zone" extends far down the street.

I knew when I started this thread that sliding it under the seat was still against the law......But why should that one stop ( at school ) of many alter how I go about the rest of the day?

[Siobhra]

This is one of many irritants about the carry laws that you must get used to. (or get mad). I go over to NJ once a month to visit with friends and it usually falls on the day other group of my friends and I meet for our monthly shoot. I have to drive almost an hour home to drop off my guns and then drive over a hour back past the range to go to my friends house. Then drive home at one or two in the morning, unarmed. If we are running around with a list of things to do we can't stop at the post office.

As I write this I started to wonder if we can carry in the Constitution Center in Philly? A building to celebrate the Constitution of the United States.

[danp]

Originally Posted by Siobhra

As I write this I started to wonder if we can carry in the Constitution Center in Philly? A building to celebrate the Constitution of the United States.

You can not, they have metal detectors last time I checked. Which is why I refuse to visit it.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by Gary in Pennsylvania

I don't want to even try to carry into the school. I just feel choked if, during a busy day of errands or "away-from-house" business, i must leave the firearm home if one of the stops is a school. For now, my carry is discreet enough that my kids don't know when I carry.
And it's not like you can park out on the road curbside cus the "school-zone" extends far down the street.

I knew when I started this thread that sliding it under the seat was still against the law......But why should that one stop ( at school ) of many alter how I go about the rest of the day?

Understood, and I completely understand your frustration. But you asked the question, so we're all providing our opinions. It stinks that one has to potentially not carry at all because of the limitations of some locations, like schools, office buildings where companies have similar restrictions, etc.

If you're carrying concealed, and you're careful, I doubt anything will come of it. Just realize that if you do get noticed, there might be consequences as per the letter of the law.

[Lougotzz]

I know it is a hassel when you carry and you have to go to a no carry zone. I get pissed as well. Being law abiding people we follow the rules. Criminals dont. I will say this PA HAS VERY FEW NO CARRY ZONES. Many other state has many more no carry zones. NC come to mind. SC comes to mind. Even Texas has the 30 06(?) sign. If I am not mistake it carries weight. In PA our places for off limits are court houses(they are supposed to provide lockers for you to lock up your weapon) Schools(grey area) federal locations State parks (grey area) Other then that I dont think there is anyplace else. if a sign is posted it doesnt hold weight unless they see your weapon and ask you to leave.

If I am wrong with this someone please correct me. Again this is not legal advise.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

Understood, and I completely understand your frustration. But you asked the question, so we're all providing our opinions.

Chambered......That's great. I really want everyone's opinion.

But why should that one stop ( at school ) of many alter how I go about the rest of the day?

And when I said the above, I wasn't being argumentative, but rather venting my frustrations.

And as for PA's stance on gun laws? I am more than thankful for the freedoms we enjoy! And I hope they never go away!