Soccer parents wince at prospect of guns at games

[XRAY Joe]

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

A group of people physically barring someone from going somewhere that they are legally permitted to be would at the least be harassment, and depending on how far they go to do so, at worst assault, kidnapping, false arrest, and likely a dozen other criminal acts. Once they shove the person, because of the unlawfully preventing him from going where he is legally permitted the case for assault is made.

I doubt even with the case for assault being present that any OCer (or CCer) would draw their weapon. Its more likely that they would get out their cell phone and call the police, unless the fathers escalated it beyond simply shoving.

Drawing a gun as a response to a group of individuals restraining you, especially if they do by through physical contact, is not aggressive. The actions of the group are aggressive, any response to that is defensive.



While they may (or may not, a judge here in berks ruled the other way when i was a teenager, stating that permission to use the facilities of a public park does not grant any authority over the park or the ability to prohibit anyone from being in it) be able to ban someone from the soccer field, they have no authority over other fields in the park. Banning someone from the soccer field would simply relegate them to the baseball field, football field, etc.



And CC'ing under some circumstances is pretty stupid as well. Take a 20lb sack of potatoes, hold it on your hip like its a child, and now try to rapidly draw from concealment one handed. Repeat with the potatoes sitting in a wheeled chair while trying to draw the chair behind you like a stroller. Repeat again with the chair turned backwards and 'herd' it behind you like you would a small child. 7/10 of my attempts on each resulted in the gun snagging on my shirt and being either fumbled for a second before i got a solid grip on it or being completely pulled from my hand.

CC when both hands are free allowing the support hand to life a shirt clear of the firearm eliminates the problem of the shirt snagging the gun, but it is not always possible to have the support hand free for that. With 3 children, one of them in a stroller, it is far more likely for SFN to have her support hand unavailable to her making a one handed draw from concealment difficult (and dangerously slow) at best and impossible at worst.

I am fucking sorry I didn't go with my first thought and not even post. Watch the soccer game from the baseball field. I never said anyone could keep you out of a public park. They can just bar you from participating. Are you going to quote me a hundred times now and comment on every sentence? Don't quote me as I will just read the posts like I have been doing in the past. Maybe move the whole OC thing to Pa Patriots web site. That way you won't have any views you don't like posted.

[Pennywise]

Originally Posted by ScaredOnce

Yes, you can. In the end effect, the "rules" for participation in the "group" may be signed under contract. This is a complex issue.

Just think of those that have "No Firearms." or "No vicious attack dog breeds." in their property leases. Generally, the same applies.

That may be true for leasing private property but I doubt it applies to public property.

[338winmag]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

Sounds like one of our members......

yea im not shore who it is.but he invited me to join and go to one of the oc events.and meat all the other people with 44 in waists and pipe cleaner arms as he said.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by mikey

After looking over some of his past threads and posts, I see what you mean. I don't know why all the blunt and rude comments are coming out either, and I have no problems with him stating his oppinions, but I will stick up for SFN because I know what was said in the courtroom. I think when the transcript is released, and people find out what was said in there, they will better understand the whole situation.

That will not change any minds, just like the neutered lemmings that bow down to the messiah.

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by XRAY Joe

I am fucking sorry I didn't go with my first thought and not even post. Watch the soccer game from the baseball field. I never said anyone could keep you out of a public park. They can just bar you from participating. Are you going to quote me a hundred times now and comment on every sentence? Don't quote me as I will just read the posts like I have been doing in the past. Maybe move the whole OC thing to Pa Patriots web site. That way you won't have any views you don't like posted.

back to the ignore list.

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by XRAY Joe

I am fucking sorry I didn't go with my first thought and not even post. Watch the soccer game from the baseball field. I never said anyone could keep you out of a public park. They can just bar you from participating. Are you going to quote me a hundred times now and comment on every sentence? Don't quote me as I will just read the posts like I have been doing in the past. Maybe move the whole OC thing to Pa Patriots web site. That way you won't have any views you don't like posted.

If you didn't want anyone to respond to your thoughts, then you are right and should not have posted them. I responded to those points you made that I had responses for, broke them up so that it would be clear exactly which portion of your post each of my responses was too, and expected that you would respond to any of my statements you felt required a respnse resulting in a discussion of the subject.

I don't know what caused you to respond as you did, but if you wish to discuss the issue I will gladly do so and ignore this particular post as if it never happened. It is your choice.

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by 338winmag

yea im not shore who it is.but he invited me to join and go to one of the oc events.and meat all the other people with 44 in waists and pipe cleaner arms as he said.

Well he couldn't have been talking about me! My waist is nowhere near 44", and my arms are more like pipes than pipe cleaners. Maybe we should link to the video of me shooting DCDalton's Krinkov.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by mjfletcher

....And CC'ing under some circumstances is pretty stupid as well. Take a 20lb sack of potatoes, hold it on your hip like its a child, and now try to rapidly draw from concealment one handed. Repeat with the potatoes sitting in a wheeled chair while trying to draw the chair behind you like a stroller. Repeat again with the chair turned backwards and 'herd' it behind you like you would a small child. 7/10 of my attempts on each resulted in the gun snagging on my shirt and being either fumbled for a second before i got a solid grip on it or being completely pulled from my hand.

CC when both hands are free allowing the support hand to life a shirt clear of the firearm eliminates the problem of the shirt snagging the gun, but it is not always possible to have the support hand free for that. With 3 children, one of them in a stroller, it is far more likely for SFN to have her support hand unavailable to her making a one handed draw from concealment difficult (and dangerously slow) at best and impossible at worst.

This is a PERFECT example of what will come out in the transcript. If you were NOT there, don't judge SFN until you know what you are talking about. This is all that needs to be said. Any assumptions without FACTS, are just gibberish.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by shefearsnothing

unless the league is LEASING the ENTIRE park they can NOT alter park rules....NOT EVEN FOR THE FIELD THEY ARE PLAYING ON.

Originally Posted by Pennywise

That may be true for leasing private property but I doubt it applies to public property.

This is actually very important. I had a little run in with this issue in 2004 thanks to J. Kerry. Usually, and it's totally a grey area in my opinion, you can not impose limits exceeding the public property's posted rules. However, if you post as part of an agreement that XYZ rules will be enforced, the public at large cannot claim public use are a defense for violating XYZ rules. All of this based on the premise that XYZ was accepted by the public authority granting/approving the contract of usage.

[P-11 shooter]

I thought there would be something new discussed in this thread. It would be a full time job just trying to read it all and much of it is simple bickering.

I'd like to thank headcase, and 9-7 and the others that have been holding it down.

I'd really, really like to thank Danp for stopping by and clarifying his position and taking the time to explain it thoroughly.

As for much of the rest of the thread, i'd rather just leave it. Fuck it, if anyone needs me I'll be in the gun babe thread. It seems like a better use of my time.