Soccer parents wince at prospect of guns at games

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by 338winmag

some one on pennlive just posted that all of us who oc are fat and are a bunch of wimps. i d like to meet him face to face and then have him say that to my face.any of you who know me know what I'm getting at.

Yep.
10 char.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by normanvin

So I doubt the league could either.

The league may be able to. It depends on how/if the league is incorporated and by whom.


Unfortunately....

[shefearsnothing]

unless the league is LEASING the ENTIRE park they can NOT alter park rules....NOT EVEN FOR THE FIELD THEY ARE PLAYING ON.

[mjfletcher]

Originally Posted by XRAY Joe

2. I love to read the posts that "If someone tries to disarm me they will get shot" Now that is not the exact quote but it was what was implied. Now if a group of dads stands in an OC'ers way and refuses to allow them near the playing field, or shoves the OC'er, they will be shot? I don't think some dad will try to disarm anyone but I can see them making a stand. I am curious as to see what would happen. I think when you OC everything should be "yes sir, no sir". Any aggressive move with a gun, CC but especially OC would be very bad.

A group of people physically barring someone from going somewhere that they are legally permitted to be would at the least be harassment, and depending on how far they go to do so, at worst assault, kidnapping, false arrest, and likely a dozen other criminal acts. Once they shove the person, because of the unlawfully preventing him from going where he is legally permitted the case for assault is made.

I doubt even with the case for assault being present that any OCer (or CCer) would draw their weapon. Its more likely that they would get out their cell phone and call the police, unless the fathers escalated it beyond simply shoving.

Drawing a gun as a response to a group of individuals restraining you, especially if they do by through physical contact, is not aggressive. The actions of the group are aggressive, any response to that is defensive.

3. I think the League is figuring out what they are going to do for the future. I stated before a Judge told me as the authorized users of the borough (public) fields we were authorized to ban anyone for any reason we saw fit from the field of play. In this case it was outside of earshot. A parent watched the entire season from a parking lot 400 feet away. We were instructed to call the police and a trespassing charge would result. Of course when there was no practice or games the person was free to use the "public" property. My guess is they will put in a no firearms policy which I guess they can. That means no CC either. Maybe PA Patriot and gbrotz can comment on that. Better take up another collection because if they do that, it is back to court.

While they may (or may not, a judge here in berks ruled the other way when i was a teenager, stating that permission to use the facilities of a public park does not grant any authority over the park or the ability to prohibit anyone from being in it) be able to ban someone from the soccer field, they have no authority over other fields in the park. Banning someone from the soccer field would simply relegate them to the baseball field, football field, etc.

5. I have no problem with OC, I just think someplaces people do it is pretty stupid. Also most people see what SFN did as grandstanding. "Hey, look at me" attitude. I don't see it that way but open your eyes, most people do. Do a poll of the members here and most might feel that way. I don't know how to do a poll or I would. Of course everyone could only vote once to keep it fair.

And CC'ing under some circumstances is pretty stupid as well. Take a 20lb sack of potatoes, hold it on your hip like its a child, and now try to rapidly draw from concealment one handed. Repeat with the potatoes sitting in a wheeled chair while trying to draw the chair behind you like a stroller. Repeat again with the chair turned backwards and 'herd' it behind you like you would a small child. 7/10 of my attempts on each resulted in the gun snagging on my shirt and being either fumbled for a second before i got a solid grip on it or being completely pulled from my hand.

CC when both hands are free allowing the support hand to life a shirt clear of the firearm eliminates the problem of the shirt snagging the gun, but it is not always possible to have the support hand free for that. With 3 children, one of them in a stroller, it is far more likely for SFN to have her support hand unavailable to her making a one handed draw from concealment difficult (and dangerously slow) at best and impossible at worst.

[XRAY Joe]

Originally Posted by fingers80002

She did nothing againt policy, rules or law.

I never said she broke the law or went against the rules. But there may be a rule in the future. And if there is she will have to abide by it in order to play.

[normanvin]

Originally Posted by ScaredOnce

You raise a good point here. I hope this all subsides and that the soccer league, the field's ownership/maintenance (whether public or private), or the town/borough/whatever isn't actually getting their ducks in a row to attempt to limit carry rights and the like.

No, the above is actually very true. It's critical to understand the usage permit or any contractual implications of the site license (if they can actually get one).

I do not think that You can change state law by way of a rental or lease contract.

Originally Posted by fingers80002

Look at pre-emption.

[ScaredOnce]

Originally Posted by normanvin

I do not think that You can change state law by way of a rental or lease contract.

Yes, you can. In the end effect, the "rules" for participation in the "group" may be signed under contract. This is a complex issue.

Just think of those that have "No Firearms." or "No vicious attack dog breeds." in their property leases. Generally, the same applies. An event on public property can have private rules based on the organizing group's wishes. Usually you have to provide a certain amount of notice or obey some other prescribed official method.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

Well, yeah, in general that is good advice, but CQB isn't some random troll, he's really never came across to me as he has in this thread, and I can't really figure out why. He's always seemed like a good guy that had a lot of good things to say. Ignoring hi would be good advice, except that he's one of our own here, so this is more of an intervention, for lack of a better term anyway. I respect his right to have his opinions, but as I keep saying, the delivery really bothers me here and it just seems so out of character, but maybe I missed something along the way.

After looking over some of his past threads and posts, I see what you mean. I don't know why all the blunt and rude comments are coming out either, and I have no problems with him stating his oppinions, but I will stick up for SFN because I know what was said in the courtroom. I think when the transcript is released, and people find out what was said in there, they will better understand the whole situation.

[Pennywise]

Originally Posted by XRAY Joe

No he did not, but it sounded right to me. This is not some pickup game in the park. Leagues have to have the proper insurance to protect themselves and also the borough. As the authorized user of the property the league can set its own rules of participation. If you don't like it don't play.

I guess it is another day in court to figure this out. My guess is they will go this route. I am thinking they are getting their ducks lined up.

I would love to hear a lawyers thoughts on this as it just doesn't ring true to me.
Of course the league can set thier own rules, But they can't actually forbid someone from entering public property can they? If the league decided to ban parents who wear skirts above the knee because they believed it to be indecent they could kick the kid out of the league i believe but they could'nt have them arrested for trespassing if they showed up at other games could they? There is no law against short skirts.
If that is the case and the league rules outweight state law then the league would be able to enforse a rule that all parents smoke a joint before a game to keep it peaceful.
It is against the law but if the league rules trump state law then what would stop them?

[fingers80002]

Originally Posted by 338winmag

some one on pennlive just posted that all of us who oc are fat and are a bunch of wimps. i d like to meet him face to face and then have him say that to my face.any of you who know me know what I'm getting at.

Sounds like one of our members......