Pulled Over While Carrying... Advice from an LEO

[alowe56]

Originally Posted by ZO6Vettever

I called 911 and when the police got to my home I had my CCW in hand and hands in the air. Told them here is my CCW, I have a loaded weapon on my right hip and will gladly surrender it. LEO said for our safety please. She took it and asked if I would mind if she cleared it and I said go for it and there is one in the pipe. Very professional, no problem. They ran my CCW and serial number, gave me everything back and said go ahead and load whenever I wanted. I waited until they left.

Ok, I don't get it. You called the Police just so they could come over, take your weapon, run your permit and the serial number on your gun?

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by 340M&P

Gunlawyer

Counselor, this is from your own post on page 2:

We don't exist for the convenience of the police. Police are not the enemy, but citizens shouldn't be treated like rabid dogs, either. I don't plan to shoot any cops, and I resent being treated like I do, especially if my "offense" is related to the income-producing road tax. (On a side note, speeding doesn't cause most accidents; driving while on a cell phone, tailgating, and beating red lights cause accidents, but they are harder to catch, so departments concentrate on catching people driving 65 in a 55 zone. I've NEVER seen the cops catch someone tailgating me or anyone else. But I see tailgating every day, all day, and it's like holding a gun to someone's head that will go off if a dog runs out in the road or a tire blows or someone 3 cars ahead slows down to change lanes. So it's not like the focus on catching speeders is for OUR benefit.)

Point made.

I see the words. I know what they mean. I don't see your point. Perhaps you're skipping over necessary parts of your argument, I dunno.

A point can be laid out like this:
I think that taxes rates are too high, both for maximizing revenue, and for allowing productivity.
As proof, I point to the Reagan era, where decreasing tax rates resulted in higher productivity, and an increase in total tax revenues.
Therefor, the evidence shows that reducing tax rates can increase revenues and productivity.

That's just an example of "a point". There are other ways to set one out. But if your audience doesn't understand the point, then you did it wrong.

So, as far as I can tell, your point has not been made. I'm interested in what it might be. You mentioned real criminals being caught during traffic stops, and your point was...?

[340M&P]

Ok, it's like this. The police make a traffic stop for speeding "revenue generating fine" as you put it. But the operator is wanted for a far more serious crime, like robbery, murder, etc.
Believe it or not, that is how most criminals are
caught.
Now you say you aren't going to shoot the cop, but unless he is a close friend, he doesn't know that. So they might be a bit jumpy, especially with the mention of a gun.
Since they don't know you, they might want
to take your gun for their safety. I don't do it, but I see the argument for it.
Timothy McViegh was caught by a highway patrolman on a "routine" traffic stop for carrying concealed. Oklahoma had no CC at the time. His offense, an expired license.
So my advice is not to reveal where allowed by law. Makes
for a much less edgy and quicker encounter.

[emsjeep]

I think these may be two different issues? Were you just angry at the fact that he said traffic stops were merely in place to keep the department well funded?

The problem is that a moving violation doesn't make you a criminal, though perhaps a criminal is more likely to disobey other laws as well, and so it is not a legitimate use of power by the officer to turn every gun owner who commits or is perceived to commit a traffic infraction into a hood ornament. In Iraq LE/Military and Civilian contractors open fire on vehicles that approach them on the highway in an awkward or threatening manner because it is likely they are about to get blown up...this spawned a whole internet video deal about Blackwater USA and it turned out not to be them if you remember. Anyway, the point is that this isn't a warzone, I think it would be fair to say that 98/100 people you stop for a moving violation or equipment violation have no criminal history and some higher percentage have absolutely no criminal intent, and therefore it is not necessary to humiliate a multitude of generally law abiding citizens just because one in 10,000 might have means and opportunity to shoot the officer. Also, I think it is fair to say that if the person is going to shoot the officer they are going to do it before making contact or soon thereafter or at a point in the incident where they become more compromised, i.e. before an impending search or arrest...in any case, its not going to be after saying "Officer, here is my LTCF and I have a weapon" and so at that point it is above and beyond reason or safety value to humiliate, disarm and physically dominate a citizen. People are reluctant to disclose because this does happen, and that is unfortunate.

[ZO6Vettever]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO6Vettever
I called 911 and when the police got to my home I had my CCW in hand and hands in the air. Told them here is my CCW, I have a loaded weapon on my right hip and will gladly surrender it. LEO said for our safety please. She took it and asked if I would mind if she cleared it and I said go for it and there is one in the pipe. Very professional, no problem. They ran my CCW and serial number, gave me everything back and said go ahead and load whenever I wanted. I waited until they left.
=================================================
Ok, I don't get it. You called the Police just so they could come over, take your weapon, run your permit and the serial number on your gun?
__________________
Al, I called 911 because I was being scammed and feared a possible home invasion. I got two really bizzare calls from a guy who wanted to see my home (For Sale By Owner). The 2nd call he says he will be here in 20 minutes, I hear a lot of Spanish chatter in the background yet when I ask, he says he is alone. I told him if this was a scam and he shows up with thugs I would shoot him (I know that is not what to say but I just did not want him here). He said I'll call you back and hung up. That's when I called 911. It turns out he called from a stolen cell phone so something wasn't right.

[alowe56]

Originally Posted by ZO6Vettever

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO6Vettever
I called 911 and when the police got to my home I had my CCW in hand and hands in the air. Told them here is my CCW, I have a loaded weapon on my right hip and will gladly surrender it. LEO said for our safety please. She took it and asked if I would mind if she cleared it and I said go for it and there is one in the pipe. Very professional, no problem. They ran my CCW and serial number, gave me everything back and said go ahead and load whenever I wanted. I waited until they left.
=================================================
Ok, I don't get it. You called the Police just so they could come over, take your weapon, run your permit and the serial number on your gun?
__________________
Al, I called 911 because I was being scammed and feared a possible home invasion. I got two really bizzare calls from a guy who wanted to see my home (For Sale By Owner). The 2nd call he says he will be here in 20 minutes, I hear a lot of Spanish chatter in the background yet when I ask, he says he is alone. I told him if this was a scam and he shows up with thugs I would shoot him (I know that is not what to say but I just did not want him here). He said I'll call you back and hung up. That's when I called 911. It turns out he called from a stolen cell phone so something wasn't right.

Ok, I see. But you should have told us that to begin with.

[WellArmedLiberal]

Overall, the "advice from an LEO" is a list of precautions for citizens to use in avoiding being shot by stressed-out, paranoid and undertrained police.

I have to put my hands on the wheel at all times or risk being shot? Does that mean as an armed citizen everyone around me better keep their hands on the wheel, or not look through their belongings, and better smile or I might shoot them?

When normal folks are stopped for a traffic violation, they start looking for their documents, they don't always smile, and their hands should be wherever the want them to be. I don't need a cop telling me how to sooth his jumpiness or nervous feelings or adrenalin from a previous incident.

Stopping cars is part of an officer's job. If he or she is not qualified or trained well enough to carry a firearm w/o shooting innocent civilians who don't "assume the position" or put there hands up at first sight of a cop, they should find another job.

[alowe56]

Actually, from what I've been told, that's their advice for EVERYONE, whether you have a gun or not. People have been drawn down on, reaching for a cell phone, their insurance and registration and other things.

[1861]

[quote=alowe56;463800]Actually, from what I've been told, that's their advice for EVERYONE, whether you have a gun or not. People have been drawn down on, reaching for a cell phone, their insurance and registration and other things.[/QUOTE

that is scary but very true . I belive whether you are a LEO or private citizen , drawing a weapon should be the last option and not done out of paranoia.

[emsjeep]

I have had really only one good altercation with Police. It was 4am, snowing and it was an emotional scene. He had just come off an arrest of a fellow college student who got drunk and flipped him off for fun. I did my best to park so that the ambulance could get easy access but they wound up coming in from the wrong entrance and because of their mistake wound up trying to squeeze between my vehicle and a permanent garbage can...they hit the can. I come out and meet a Sgt screaming at me about moving my vehicle with no mention of the accident, and I can see that no one is currently obstructed. I attempt to comply telling him to calm down, that I had every intention of doing whatever he needed done. I had to go find the person I gave my keys to...that pissed him off...so he began berating me in front of a crowd about how I shouldn't park here or there and how stupid I was and all this nonsense. I put up with it mostly, tried to retreat to my vehicle, he kept following me, actually chased me from one side to the other. I wound up putting the door between us when he put his hand on his gun. Then I said it, "You know what, I'm a goddamn volunteer, I did the best that I could and I don't have to put up with your bullshit, fuck this!" I then slammed the door in his face and floored it as the crowd cheered. Yeah, 3 people came up to me later and said "you did good standing up to that asshole, good for you." This was a marked first response vehicle btw, belonging to a department, and I was on duty.

They have no right to take their bad day out on anyone, and I'm certainly not going to put up with it.