Pulled Over While Carrying... Advice from an LEO

[DennisH82]

Originally Posted by dman

Dear Dennish82,I don't feel an apology is in order.It's not lack of sleep,it's frustration.We can't stress enough how important diplomacy is.Every gun toteing individual out there represents all of us.How we conduct ourselves is an issue and sould be to all of us.

I agree with you but for me it is lack of sleep, its 6pm over here right now and I have only had 5 hrs sleep the past 48. I visit this site as often as I can depending on my duties. I see the wide variety in thought processes out there when it comes to firearms in general. Like with any other right or privlege you always have far extreemes both left and right. It seems to me that there has to be some middle ground for anything to proceed. While I might not be the sharpest pencil in the box I have to scratch my head and tell myself WTF when I read some of the posts on this site. But then again thats another aspect of the freedoms that alot of us take for granted. Thanks again.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by DennisH82

I apologize if I wasn't specific enough, lack of sleep does that. What I was saying or intending to point out is, if you are pulled over for whatever reason real or imagined by a LEO then all you have to do is know your rights. To bludgeon the LEO with an attitude seems self destructive at the very least. I am not saying or supporting that anyone suffer from a severe case of (Verbal Diarrhea) VD when stopped and I am also not saying you have to be Mr or Mrs sunshine either. I treat others how I want to be treated, if they decide to have a meltdown at me I sit there calmly and take mental notes. You have to find the middle ground unless you want to spend most of your time face down on the hood of your car or in court wasting your hard earned money dealing with the bureaucracy.

I for one know that I don't have to disclose in PA and that what I would do. I am a real big fan of not volunteering information and try to live by that, not always successful though.

I hear you. Just because we do not volunteer info does not a unpleasant encounter make. I agree. It seems some folks are looking at non disclosure the same as being mouthy and rude to the LEO.

[Bmaninmifco]

Originally Posted by dman

This post is directed at only the negative karma.You can't expect anybody to welcome citizens,with guns,when the attitude is f#@k you,!this is my f#@king right,Some of us are scarring people out there,The masses,people in general,are at least impressionable.A simple smile -vs-a f#@k you, might soften things for you and anybody else involved.You are responsible to educate the masses.Your attitude is critical.You want people to accept us,make them comfortable with it,loose the tough guy bull crap then!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can see this getting bad in a hurry.
Throughout history I can only remember one time that some one educated the masses and got what they wanted without a little bit of fuck you and that was in India.

The civil rights movement while led by a peaceful man still had bloodshed.
I have a right to free speech the right to keep and bear arms and the right to be free from unlawful search and seizure.
I don't seem to recall a right to feel good.
Could you point it out for me

[ExtremeDooty]

My thoughts on this subject have evolved over the past year, mostly because of all the incidents of abuse of power I've read here. I used to believe that I would inform the officer of my CCW status as a courtesy to him or her, even though I'm not required to do so in Colorado.

Shortly after starting my new job, I was driving my new company car and got pulled over. He said my temporary license was not properly displayed. The temporary license is paper and was taped to the inside of the rear window by the dealer. This is how virtually all temporary licenses are displayed and I realized that I was being rousted by a cop looking to go on fishing expedition. I was polite and respectful, but did not disclose my CCW status. While he was checking my paperwork, and very likely finding out that I had a CCW, I decided that I would not allow a search of my car. The car was mostly empty, so there was no PC for a search. Apparently he realized this and wrote out a warning and sent me on my way.

I still believe that most cops have good intentions and are just doing their jobs. Unfortunately, I also feel that I have to temper my interactions with them based on the possibility that the cop in front of me might be a bad cop. That's a shame, but it's also a reality.

[PennsyPlinker]

Originally Posted by dman

This post is directed at only the negative karma.You can't expect anybody to welcome citizens,with guns,when the attitude is f#@k you,!this is my f#@king right,Some of us are scarring people out there,The masses,people in general,are at least impressionable.A simple smile -vs-a f#@k you, might soften things for you and anybody else involved.You are responsible to educate the masses.Your attitude is critical.You want people to accept us,make them comfortable with it,loose the tough guy bull crap then!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't seen this attitude displayed here either. What I have seen though, is the attitude that those of us who do not comply immediately with every wish and whim of the police are troublemakers. Just because a cop wants me to do something does not mean I have to do it. There are times when I will, but there are also times where I won't. Standing up for my rights in a polite way is not tough guy crap - unless you think that standing up for your rights is somehow inappropriate in the face of authority.

Furthermore, if people are scared, too bad. There is no right not to be scared, and people can be scared of the silliest things. It is not my duty to police my life to the extent that no one will be scared of me or my legal actions. All my life I've had people whine about how I scare them because I am a big guy, I have a real deep voice, and a very direct manner. So I don't even bother anymore worrying about scaring people most of the time. They need to learn to live with their fears, not me.

[Brown-Bear]

I did'nt feel like I was being talked down too at all. It sounds like a god letter written from a man who knows that everyone whose gonna read it most likely gonna say " Oh yeah, well fuck off"and not have heard any of it since they hate cops. But it makes sense to me.

I don't see the need to inform right away, but as I typically OC, on the right side it is not visible from the driver's side window. But, if I were to be asked to exit the vehicle, I'd inform just to aviod the suprise reaction, and see where it goes from there.

Dave

[1861]

as a retired LEO {30 } years , I do not offer any info not required . if you are stopped for speeding , the conversation should be about speeding . I don,t offer info on everything I do , so why bring up my carrying ? it,s legal

[HiredGoon]

Originally Posted by 1861

as a retired LEO {30 } years , I do not offer any info not required . if you are stopped for speeding , the conversation should be about speeding . I don,t offer info on everything I do , so why bring up my carrying ? it,s legal

Wondering...as a retired LEO, do you identify yourself as such on a traffic stop (with badge and/or I.D)....that is, if you have been pulled over since you've retired

[1861]

I haven,t been pulled over since way before I retired . would I ? probably not , because that would be the same as saying , I,m armed !

[emsjeep]

Our world is a playground for COPS. I have known many, I respect and admire them and even call some friends but make no mistake, it is them vs. the world. In a sense the attitude is justified, wearing the badge is painting a target on their chest and it requires that they enter situations that further endanger them. I have been stopped a number of times. Mostly I attract attention because when I am out I am the only one on the road. Usually a casual but resptful attitude helps. As an EMS officer and firefighter I can play the "I am your equal" game better than most and have wound up flat out saying, honestly, "No, I wasn't speeding you are mistaken," and been free to go. Once I even taught a newer officer how to properly enter my custom license plate into the DMV check system.
However, the COP that does 120 in his personal vehicle on the expressway and flips a badge when he gets stopped, or the COP who sits on his ass 7 of 12 hours and then gives me a problem when I call in a legitimate emergency on his post, forcing him to give up relaxation and a game of darts, reminds me that we are and always will be at odds. I was stopped a while ago by our local Police who patrol no actual highway (a maybe 3 mile stretch of 4 lane is the most open territory they have in an otherwise congested district) but have several new Chargers with undercover packages, plate hunters and radar guns and park in the bushes on the downhill sections. Cop gets up to me, "What department are you with?" I was in the process of being voted into department X which is in their district, but was already in several others, so I tell him "I am with departments Y and Z," "Oh you're not in department X?" Not wanting to compromise my acceptance I held back, "Oh ok, well I'm going to have to write you a ticket." However, when I get stopped int he right district, "Oh, you're with department Y and Z? No problem, have a nice day."

Speaking of joking around...I have been on the recieving end of COP based practical jokes, bogus stops by friends who sick trainees on me and then intervene at the last second. Yeah, let me tell you, not so funny....

I hope that all made sense...maybe some editing is in order, I'm kinda slow right now...