Montgomery County Parks

[emsjeep]

Hey, while I was out walking today I noticed a few signs within the bounds of a Montgomery County park site:
"Montgomery County
Department of Parks

Recreation Area

No Hunting, trapping etc.
Firearms
Alcoholic beverages
Motorized vehicles
Littering, etc.

By order of the Montgomery County
Commissioner"

and

"Montgomery County Department of Parks
NO HUNTING

Carrying of Firearms, Bows, arrow, driving game etc.
is strictly prohibited

By order of
Montgomery County Commissioner"


The posted rules say just about the same junk and indicate that the rules are derived from a county code, the penalty for violation is a summary offense $300 fine and up to 90 days in jail.

Can they do that? I thought only State Parks had this restriction? The full rules posed say something to the effect of "no carrying firearms except under certain circumstances" or something...does that mean its ok with a permit?

Help me out here, thanks!

[God's Country]

It's legal to carry. I venture to say most county commissioners have no clue what the preemption laws are or mean. IMO most of those signs are CYA and nothing else. Recommendations made by county solicitors whose main purpose in life is to give poor legal advise to local leaders.

[shefearsnothing]

Nope. They can't do that....well they ARE doing it but...really they aren't allowed to....

[emsjeep]

its not like the guys in the county parks 4x4s with the single amber strobe are going to arrest anyone, or detain anyone for that matter. Could they ask you to leave? I guess CC wouldn't be a problem but it rules out OC.

[God's Country]

Originally Posted by emsjeep

its not like the guys in the county parks 4x4s with the single amber strobe are going to arrest anyone, or detain anyone for that matter. Could they ask you to leave? I guess CC wouldn't be a problem but it rules out OC.

It doesn't rule out OC unless that is your desire. No they can't ask you to leave. They might, but its public property no different than a sidewalk.

[emsjeep]

Throw a rock in any direction and you will hit two trees with "No Firearms" signs before you nail a soccer mom and her golden retriever. I feel like they wouldn't go through the trouble of putting up all those signs if they didn't intend on enforcing them to some extent. It is absolutely amazing how ignorant people in power can be, or how they can purposely turn a blind eye to the law and do as they wish. The only way to rise above this is to become a lawyer, politician or a COP, and even then there are no guarantees... definitely FUBAR...

[Elmar]

Just call in and ask to speak with someone in Risa's office and inquire about the preemption violation and how it opens the county up to lawsuits and as a taxpayer you would rather not have to pay for the county comissioner's ignorance of the law.

[Statkowski]

Do what I did here: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...nty-parks.html

Of course, you'll have to tailor your letter appropriately, but it has worked for me. Indiana County is working at resolving the issue, and the county commissioners even thanked me for writing in.

Like others, Montgomery County probably has an ordinance that predates the UFA's premption and never knew they had to amend their ordinance accordingly.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by emsjeep

... The only way to rise above this is to become a lawyer, politician or a COP, and even then there are no guarantees... definitely FUBAR...

Bullshit.

Several of these preempted ordinances have been overturned by PAFOA members. (See Stakowski's example above).

Several others are currently in the works.

Some resolve easily (letter or appearance) some require more persistence and effort.

It only takes one person and the right attitude.

If you think you can or you can't, you're always right.

~Henry Ford I

[emsjeep]

______________
____________
___________________


September 19, 2008


Human Services Center
1430 DeKalb Street
Norristown, PA 19404-0311

To Whom It May Concern,
Upon visiting a Montgomery County Parks Department maintained recreational area I noted multiple signs and posted rules that stated in numerous ways that firearms were strictly prohibited on the property for any purpose. The County ordinances posted on the trailhead corkboard noted that violation of the posted rules, including the possession of a firearm, would result in a summary offence.

As you are aware, the Commonwealth’s Uniform Firearms Act (1995) reads, in part, as follows: 18 Pa. C.S. §6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition. (a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammuni¬tion components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.
It was the intention of the state to preempt all local laws and ordinances with the implementation of the Uniform Firearms Act. Therefore, the regulations posted are not enforceable as they exist in violation of state law. Any arrest and attempted prosecution under the local ordinances posted at the County Park sites could potentially be met with lawsuits against the department, county and enforcing agencies.


I trust this is simply an oversight of the department and that you will amend the posted regulations to reflect state law so that the public may be properly informed of their rights, and to avoid confusion, wrongful arrest, detention or seizure of property by agencies that may be asked to enforce the posted regulations.


I would appreciate any clarification of the posted ordinances and signage you may be able to provide, citing appropriate state law or county code when and if possible, so that I may distribute it to other interested parties as accurately as possible. Likewise, I would like to be informed of any resolution to this issue so that I and others may abide by the law to the fullest extent.
Sincerely,

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