My first (non)LEO encounter

[Philbert]

Although the video is grainy, it appears to me that their badges are different to a police badge.

[King 5.45]

That's a badge. Why the attempted deception on the part of the person who responded with the explanation about the Eastwick Bike Patrol?

At any rate, Philly uses circular badges for higher offices and for people associated with outfits like the DA's office. PPD detective badges are a throwback gold shield that looks like it came from a Victorian uniform, and I think we all know what a patrolman's badge looks like.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

This video shows the item around the neck better...definetley looks like a gold badge.

Seems to be the consensus reaction by everyone who's seen the video. It was my immediate first thought as well. That's not good.

[pex]

This is just a throwout in trying to figure out where some sense of authority might be derived.

Knowing the following to be true:

[6106(a)] (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

§6108. Carrying Firearms on Public Streets or Public Property in Philadelphia.

No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:

(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or

(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license)

§6119. Violation Penalty.

Except as otherwise specifically provided, an offense under this subchapter constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. (Chgd. by L. 1989, Act 68(2), eff 2/5/90.)

If someone jumbled all that and thought that Philly + License required = felony 3d, or some similar jumble (must be concealed or whatever) perhaps someone could think it somehow falls under citizen arrest. Because people keep quoting Kopko and NOT where Kopko found its authority...I'm not sure where PA really stands on felony and non-felony citizen arrest.

Someone needs to cough up Commonwealth v. Chermansky, 430 Pa. 170, 242 A.2d 237, 239 (Pa. 1968) which is where the court got the idea that felony citizen arrest is okay. I would like to know what they said.

I know this doesn't excuse any mentions of being police, except that a person can say they're policing...it's a fine line. It's like, a person is dressed in something you think police would wear, and they say they're policing, but you didn't ask them if they were a duly and lawfully ordained organization with authority granted by the state.

A person can ask you to do things just like a police officer, and you don't have to comply with either of them because they lack color of authority.

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Just as a side path off the main topic here....but 911 is for emergencies. The non-emergency number would be more appropriate. Just as the patron at OCB calling 911 was inappropriate, so too would this be. Sorry...just something of a personal pet peeve.

As for verification, I would definitely call 911. You can't exactly try and call the local police probably not knowing their number, and since you can't trust the potential policeman, you can't try calling 'their barracks'. You could try 1800GOOG411 and spend the time speaking the city and state, and then the probably name of the county police department or similar, and work from there, but that's supposing the potential officer doesn't make any moves of force upon you.

You don't think that's an emergency? I hear some people are robbed, beaten, and killed by fake officers. Dealing with government is always an emergency.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Just as a side path off the main topic here....but 911 is for emergencies. The non-emergency number would be more appropriate. Just as the patron at OCB calling 911 was inappropriate, so too would this be. Sorry...just something of a personal pet peeve.

In some areas there IS no "non-emergency" number to call.

Take Pittsburgh for example. If you call the old "non-emergency" number for a complaint, they will tell you to hang up and call 911. I've had this happen for PARKING COMPLAINTS!

It floored me, as I have the same attitude as you do, that 911 is for emergencies only (and as a trained 911 operator, I used to get quite peeved at people who abused that system)

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by pex

As for verification, I would definitely call 911. You can't exactly try and call the local police probably not knowing their number, and since you can't trust the potential policeman, you can't try calling 'their barracks'. You could try 1800GOOG411 and spend the time speaking the city and state, and then the probably name of the county police department or similar, and work from there, but that's supposing the potential officer doesn't make any moves of force upon you.

I keep emergency numbers stored in my cell phone as well as the police non-emergency number. This isn't advice solely for encountering people posing as officers while fishing; it's general advice regarding emergency vs. non emergency.

You don't think that's an emergency? I hear some people are robbed, beaten, and killed by fake officers. Dealing with government is always an emergency.

I strongly disagree.

Take Pittsburgh for example. If you call the old "non-emergency" number for a complaint, they will tell you to hang up and call 911. I've had this happen for PARKING COMPLAINTS!

That's insane.

[lizzielu]

the cops themselves tell you if you are stopped by an officer and aren't sure if they're real to call 911

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by lizzielu

the cops themselves tell you if you are stopped by an officer and aren't sure if they're real to call 911

And in some cases I would agree. Traveling alone at night and being pulled over by an "unmarked" car or being asked/demanded to do something that sounds suspicious is one thing; being bullied by a blowhard with many people around is another.

[pex]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

I keep emergency numbers stored in my cell phone as well as the police non-emergency number. This isn't advice solely for encountering people posing as officers while fishing; it's general advice regarding emergency vs. non emergency.

Would you care to estimate how many police departments and jurisdictions there are in PA? Are you telling me you preprogram for every place you're going to travel? What if you have to take a detour somewhere?

Do you really think you're going to have this 'time-out' where you can call 911 only when things get bad? A police officer isn't going to necessarily tolerate verification, and the same can be said for a non-officer.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by pex

Are you telling me you preprogram for every place you're going to travel? What if you have to take a detour somewhere?

Surely you didn't really come away with this conclusion after reading my post since I suggested nothing of the sort and made no mention of travel.

Do you really think you're going to have this 'time-out' where you can call 911 only when things get bad? A police officer isn't going to necessarily tolerate verification, and the same can be said for a non-officer.

I'll refer you back to my previous post:

This isn't advice solely for encountering people posing as officers while fishing; it's general advice regarding emergency vs. non emergency.