More problems in Delaware County, need help!

[jmelon]

Hi,

New guy here, lurking around for few days and today decided to sign up.

Here is my story (will try to keep it short).

I had a CCW permit issued in Philly for 10 years, recently moved to Delaware County and my permit expired in the fall. I went to renew it in Media but was told my Philly permit means nothing and a brand new application is needed.

Didn't want to argue with the lady at the courthouse but aren't existing permits honored in every county in the commonwealth? Why can't I renew it and instead had to do a new application?

60 days into my application I get a call asking for work references, my 2 personal references were called the same day and confirmed. Problem is I got laid off after I applied so my employment could not be verified.

I received two phone calls from a Deputy who insisted I MUST give him a work number and a name of a supervisor so he can talk to them. I explained twice that I am unemployed and my ex-employer only does employment verifications through an automated 800 number. I gave the deputy the number, but then 3 days later he called and said that is not good enough, he needs a name of an immediate supervisor that he can talk to. Again I explained I am unemployed and my ex-employer's policy is that you must use the automated 800 number, they will not speak with me or anyone else for that matter.


So now it is 90 days later, no letter, no denial, no approval. I am in limbo. I called the Courthouse and spoke with the secretary and she said it is still in process, 90 days later.

At this point I think I need an attorney to get this moving. Any recommendations for someone who supports 2nd amendment rights in SE PA?

I have to tell you it was easier to get a permit in Philly then in Delaware County. Btw my permit is for self defense and not for work carry.

someone please help!

thank you,

melon

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by jmelon

Hi,

New guy here, lurking around for few days and today decided to sign up.

Here is my story (will try to keep it short).

I had a CCW permit issued in Philly for 10 years, recently moved to Delaware County and my permit expired in the fall. I went to renew it in Media but was told my Philly permit means nothing and a brand new application is needed.

Didn't want to argue with the lady at the courthouse but aren't existing permits honored in every county in the commonwealth? Why can't I renew it and instead had to do a new application?

60 days into my application I get a call asking for work references, my 2 personal references were called the same day and confirmed. Problem is I got laid off after I applied so my employment could not be verified.

I received two phone calls from a Deputy who insisted I MUST give him a work number and a name of a supervisor so he can talk to them. I explained twice that I am unemployed and my ex-employer only does employment verifications through an automated 800 number. I gave the deputy the number, but then 3 days later he called and said that is not good enough, he needs a name of an immediate supervisor that he can talk to. Again I explained I am unemployed and my ex-employer's policy is that you must use the automated 800 number, they will not speak with me or anyone else for that matter.


So now it is 90 days later, no letter, no denial, no approval. I am in limbo. I called the Courthouse and spoke with the secretary and she said it is still in process, 90 days later.

At this point I think I need an attorney to get this moving. Any recommendations for someone who supports 2nd amendment rights in SE PA?

I have to tell you it was easier to get a permit in Philly then in Delaware County. Btw my permit is for self defense and not for work carry.

someone please help!

thank you,

melon

If you are willing to take it "up a notch", then I would suggest a lawyer. AFAIK, employment verification is NOT a requirement for getting a permit where "self defense" is the reason. This isn't the first time the Delaware County Sheriff has done this; take a look at a number of other threads on the site where the DelCo Sheriff contacted employers without the consent of the applicant.

GunLawyer001, Rule10b5, can you guys shed some light on this issue? It was my understanding that employment verification was NOT a LTC application requirement. I mean, what if the applicant is self-employed, or a farmer, or retired? Also, can either of you recommend a lawyer (yourselves or otherwise) which might be able to help jmelon?

Thanks!

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

This isn't the first time the Delaware County Sheriff has done this;

True -- they contacted my job 10 years ago, too.

It seems flatly illegal to require employment for CCW.

[Frenchy]

Unless you are getting an act235 the sheriff does not need to know your employer. If they really want one say you are self employed. Your primary duty right now is clean air inspector. You walk around looking at companies where the air is celan enough for you to work in...

Looking for a job is a full time job in its self, but that is beside the point, they need 2 character referances, and shouls submit your permit or deny it within 45 days. Not 45 working days either, but 45 days counted from the date you submit,

As for renewing or starting fresh, its all the same now, If you start fresh, you need a sum of money and 2 character whitness, if you renew you need the exact same thing.

Yout LTCF is legit anywhere in Pennsylvania as long as it is not expired. What you might want to do at this time is write a letter to the "local" sheriff, and CC to the AG. Not just an e-mail but a formal registered letter stating that you applied on a certain date, the law says you should have a proper response within 45 days and the date it is today, then ask when you can expect to have your LTCW. Then drop the sheriff off, and deal with the AG in further writings.

You can get all the info you need from this page for the address of the AG.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/theoffice.aspx?id=71

What you do need is:
Recent Photo
Names, Address, Phone number's of Two
References.
Non Resident Permit if a non resident applying
for a PA permit. (Non residents from states that do not
issue permits can apply.)
Most counties want a photo but many do not put
it on the Permit.
Most counties want a copy of your driver's
license or state issued ID.
You may apply for a renewal permit within 60 days of the expiration of the current firearms permit and six (6) months afterwards. If your permit is expired by more then 60 days, you may need to restart the process. If it is not within the 60 days of expiring, IE: if it expires in 2008 june, you only need to change your vehicule registration, drivers permit or state ID the LTCW has no change of address.

(e) Issuance of license.--
(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:

I will not bore you or the rest of the members here with the reast of that page, if you want to read it all, it can be found at:
http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6109.html

[jmelon]

Frenchy,

Should I refer to the Uniform Firearms Code in my letter to the sheriff (when referring to the 45 day period)?

I will take your advice and launch them a registered letter along with a copy of the receipt when I applied and paid for the application.

Then will take it to the AG if response is not satisfactory.

thank you!

melon

[Frenchy]

You need to get the law as you understand it, that 45 day response time is part of the law. If your thought is wrong, they have to tell you so, or explain where they took a decision one way or the other. The AG is about the only person that can launch an investigation into wrong doing.

I am sure there are other more costly ways to do this, but this is simple and to the point, Some one at the AG offices has to know what is happening in these counties.

[danp]

Shoudl you choose to go the lawyer route I know of a guy who handles this type of thing. I've used him in the past for other services and he's a great pro-gun attorney.

Phil Kline
(215) 538-4444
pXhXiXlXkXjr@snip.net (remove all the X's)

[JohnnyJ]

jmelon - did you ever get your LTCF? What was the final outcome?

I am currently in a similar situation here in DelCo. Application submitted Aug 24, 2007. I called the Sheriff's Office approx Oct 12 to obtain status as neither of my references had been contacted. One of the clerks informs me she can not provide status as it has not been 45 business days. I thought it was calendar days. OK, she tells me it's business days and will actually take close to 3 months when all is said and done! 3 months??
I saw no value in going back in forth with this clerk. It is now Nov 8, my references still have not been contacted and I have not heard a thing. So, now I am at approximately calendar day "77" or business day "55". Clearly well past either of the 45 day time frames.
Also, the application states "You will be notified by mail within Forty-Five (45) working days as to your approval or denial"
Unbelievable..It's amazing how the guidelines set forth in the PA Uniform Firearms Act are bent, broken & manipulated here in DelCo.

Any other Delco members currently experiencing anything similar? I will be calling the Sheriff's office again tomorrow. Maybe I'll have it before Christmas!
JJ

[soberbyker]

When I applied for my LTCF in DELCO it took every bit of 45 business days. My references were contacted around the 35th business day, same day as my then employer. My references knew to expect a call, my employer did not, but is a gun enthusiast too so it didn't make a difference but I don't think he should have been contacted. I got my notice to pick up card a couple weeks later.

I applied for self defense.

There really does need to be a uniform way of getting your LTCF in this state, some counties you can walk in and walk out with it in hand in mere minutes. I thought the law said that the process was to be uniform through-out the state.

[Pa. Patriot]

Delco sheriff needs a serious ass whoopin'

45 days is 45 days. The law does NOT specify "business" days. Therefor it is like any other law or legal document. 45 days is 45 days, IE calendar days.

Time to start filing private criminal complaints