OCing, Sheeple, and 911

[Mabuz]

Ok guys, I've been follwing the PA-Patriot stuff since it happened, and have been reading that thread (as I'm sure just about everyone else here has been doing), and had a thought on something.

One of the posts talks about how the manager or someone called 911 to report a bunch of customers with weapons I believe. (Note: I may have missed something leading up to that post, as that thread has been getting exponentially larger by the minute, and is hard to keep up with while at work.)

Anyways, this alleged 911 call brings me to my thought regarding the public's and some LEO's misconception about OC laws...it may be a dumb thought, but maybe not...so please bare with me:

So, what's the first thing that a LEO says to someone regarding OCing if the LEO doesn't support our right to do so here in PA. From what I've read, it's something along the lines of:

"Cover that up, you're going to scare someone...you don't have to do it just because it's not illegal."

or

"Having that thing out in the open will cause unnecessary calls to the police and 911, put it away or I'll cite you for DC."

It's always some remark similar to these right?

Well my question then, is if 911 is being flooded with calls from sheeple due to a law abiding citizen whom is choosing to OC and not breaking any laws, shouldn't the person who made a false call to 911 be held accountable for their actions? I mean, whatever happened to "ignorance of the law is no excuse"? You make a false and unneeded call to 911, when no emergency or law breaking is taking place, you should be held accountable for doing so. The person who called should at least be warned that nothing illegal was happening...they do it again, they get a fine.

People who OC and are NOT breaking any laws are always questioned about the legality of what they're doing.

People who call 911 because of an OCer are actually the ones breaking a law am I correct? The last time I checked, it was illegal to call 911 unless it is for an emergency. These people who cause the unnecessary police action don't ever get reprimanded for not knowing the law.

I know that if a person was carrying somewhere that they shouldn't be, even if they thought they could, ignorance of the law is no excuse would apply...so why doesn't it apply to all of these unnecessary 911 and police calls for OCing citizens?

[Brown-Bear]

They can call 911 all day long so to speak. There is no law against calling if they feel the need the police. Believe me I wish I could have people cited for calling 911 at 3 am and telling my ambulance crew that there baby won't stop crying. WHY is that an emergency? But thats another topic.


LIke I said I don't think they are breaking any laws by calling. Now the guy who calls 14 times cuz his neighbor is doing it, and the police have been out and explained to the caller that there is no law being broken may get cited but I doubt it. If the caller is ignorant of the laws regarding OC and calls 911 for a man with a gun, then they have broken no laws, and most likely the guy carrying the wepon will be spoken to about causing a disturbance....GRRRR... not that its right, but thats what I see happening in threads of that nature.

Dave

[Mabuz]

Ok, thanks for the reply...it was just an idea that I thought may be an arguable stance.

The reason being is that I was told by a 911 operator that calling 911 for non-emergency issues was a finable offense.

Backstory: I called 911 one night due to some kids that threw fireworks into a dumpster ouside my townhome at 3:00 am. The dumpster caught on fire, and had 15 foot flames coming out the top, and I thought that it could cause close by vehicles or buildings to catch on fire, so I called 911 to report it not knowing the local Fire Dept's. number. The operator said they had a crew dispatched already, and that I should have looked up the number for the Fire Dept and not called 911 because it's not a life or death emergency. He also noted that I could be fined for any further non-emergency calls made.

[reels18]

Wouldn't it be much simpler if the 911 operator asked the caller if the gun was being brandished or the gun owner was threatening someone?

If the response is No, the 911 operator should put the caller at ease by telling him/her that the gun owner is not breaking any laws.

[archie19]

I've been following that thread also and a thought occurred to me along these lines. Are 911 call center operators also in need of more education of gun laws, open carry etc. I have no background in this area so I don't know but the question seems like it need s asked. I wouldn't be surprised if PA Patriot already thought of it thoughso maybe it will be addressed?

[1832]

If the officer tells you to "cover that thing up," doesn't that convert your OC to CC? If you don't have a CCW permit, hasn't he ordered you to break the law by carrying concealed?

[Frenchy]

My point of view on this is simple, and I really wonder what happened to the people who called 911.

They say the manager called; maybe he has a duty to do so in keeping with corporate direction seeing a client might have felt uncomfortable.

For any other callers, I see it this way, if you are in a crowded cinema, and yell out fire and cause a panic, you become liable and could be arrested.

If you do a 911 call and call in a bomb scare, you will be arrested. So why is it, some one can call a 911 operator say there are men here with guns, make the police rush to a scene where there is no crime, and get away with it?

As a private dispatcher. If I call a non emergency police number and tell them of an alarm in progress, then later find out it is a false alarm but do not call to “cancel” the alarm. I become liable for any accidents and loss of life. Many cities or towns will not cancel out on a cancel cal, but they will advise the cars / trucks responding to slow down.

So here we have 8 police cars rushing to get to a scene where men have guns, where they shooting people, where they robbing the place? No there was absolutely no reason for any officers to respond if the dispatcher had been informed and simply asked the right questions.

911 what is the nature of your call?
My name is Mrs. Bah Sheep, and there are men with guns at the Old Country Restaurant.
Alright ma’am calm down I will ask you a few questions. Is there a robbery in progress?
No,
Are the men holding their guns in their hands?
No, they have them in holsters.
Other then the fact that these people have guns can you describe any thing they might be doing wrong?
No but I am scared!
Ma’am in Pennsylvania, having a gun is completely legal, they may conceal them, and they also may carry them open. Is there any thing else that I can help you with?
But they are carrying guns; I want to make a complaint!
I understand Ma’am, I will advise the police that you want the police to come see you, and that you want to log a complaint. What is your name?
Mrs. Bah Sheep
Mrs. Sheep, what is the phone number the police can reach you at?
123-456-7890
Thank you, now if you would like, you can go wait at the door, a police car will be there shortly to take your complaint.

Mind you, I can see this having gone differently.

911 what is the nature of your call?
My name is Mrs. Bah Sheep, and there are men with guns at the Old Country Restaurant.
How many men are there?
10 of them and they scare me to death.
OK ma’am we will send officers there right away.

Then I can see an APB county wide with 10 men brandishing illegal guns in a restaurant, all available units please respond…


Just my point of view tho.

[Statkowski]

And from Nashville, Tennessee we have a 911 operator tell a distraught lady on the telephone, "I really just don't give a s**t what happens to you."

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8312600

[TaePo]

To the OP, read the following link....

It is Commonwealth vs Hawkins: (state supreme court)

http://www.courts.state.pa.us/oppost...f/k00jiz95.pdf

It covers some of what you refer to.

[Skuggi]

Hmm just thinking would it be a good idea to have a 911 or Dispatch training memo made? Do you think it could help?