PGC says off-duty police officers cannot carry in a vehicle!

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by PropCop

...
BTW - based on the thread that refers to all your "powers", you and your wife have a great sense of humor. I'm glad I found and joined this site - a great bunch of people.

Lol - and welcome aboard!

[Steve in PA]

Originally Posted by PropCop

PA Patriot,

The problems usually stem from not reading the complete regulation, along with the amendments. The entire issue that started this thread was resolved by the following:

Sec. 2525. Amended November 29, 2006, Act No. 162, Effective January 28, 2007.

Sec. 2525. Possession of firearm for protection of self or others.

(a) General rule.- It is lawful for a law enforcement officer or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm issued under 18 Pa C.S. Section 6109 (relating to licenses) to be in possession of a loaded or unloaded firearm while engaged in any activity regulated by this title.

(b) Construction.

(1) This section shall supersede any prohibition on the possession of firearms or ammunition contained in any other provision of this title.

(2) This subsection shall not be construed to permit the hunting or harvesting of any wildlife with a firearm or ammunition not otherwise permitted by this title.

(c) Definitions. - As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Firearm." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).

"Law enforcement officer." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).

The original regulation was found to be in conflict with Title 18 and corrected by the above. I missed it in the first go round too!

BTW - based on the thread that refers to all your "powers", you and your wife have a great sense of humor. I'm glad I found and joined this site - a great bunch of people.

Since when does the PGC have the authority to regulate the carry of firearms in a vehicle unless you are talking about rifles and road hunting?

This section (2525) only includes "firearms" as defined in the UFA. As a police officer in PA I can carry a fully loaded rifle or shotgun in my vehicle (cruiser while working, POV when not) as per 6106.1 as there is no stipulation for a police officer being on or off-duty. Trust me, if I lived in Philly I would probably have a fully loaded M4 in my vehicle! The point is, by law.....as a police officer I can have the loaded rifle or shotgun in my POV.

The problem is not with failing to read the entire section, the problem is the PGC making laws in direct conflict with the UFA and doing nothing to alleviate the issue, instead they further the conflict.

The first PGC law I posted refered to ANY firearm in ANY vehicle at ANY time unless the officer was on "official business".

The second law did not clear up this issue. It only says I can have a loaded handgun (firearm by definition) when hunting.

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Yeah, they exempted LTCF holders but not persons exempt from licensing? Typical PGC incompetence.

This needs addressed. It should read LTCF holders and those exempt from licensing.

I would not be too worried though, the above goes without saying. I can't imagine a court ever convicting people exempt from licensing (LTCF) such as LEO's.

Oh yes just ask the Darby Boro police three got tickets from a PGC warden in Lancaster for carrying pistols in the field during small game season. And one of the three is the Chief now

Also I don't know about anyones elses LTCF permit but mine is for both Hunting and Self Defense says so on the LTCF

This whole thing started over the SP and whether a person could carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle while going to or coming from the place where they were hunting, fishing or trapping.
I stated and even showed this supposed WCO in black and white that the Uniform Firearms Act clearly states that having a valid SP allows the person to carry a loaded firearm while doing the above.
His answer was, no I was wrong and the PGC was right. I then pointed out the absurd law in my first post to prove that the PGC is wrong about more than one law.
I'm not worried about getting stopped by any WCO, its just that the PGC has the attitude that they are never wrong about anything.

So I guess you can releate to the Dickson City Dozen

In other exceptions to 6106, they specifically state when the firearm must be unloaded. The SP exceptions, (b)(9), (10) are the same as the police officer exception (b)(1), making no mention of the firearm having to be unloaded, which would be insane if your a LEO.

Can I ask why it would be different then Rich or myself or anyone else who isn't a LEO from carrying ???? Just curious as this sounds like LEO's are above the law

[PropCop]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

Since when does the PGC have the authority to regulate the carry of firearms in a vehicle unless you are talking about rifles and road hunting?

This section (2525) only includes "firearms" as defined in the UFA. As a police officer in PA I can carry a fully loaded rifle or shotgun in my vehicle (cruiser while working, POV when not) as per 6106.1 as there is no stipulation for a police officer being on or off-duty. Trust me, if I lived in Philly I would probably have a fully loaded M4 in my vehicle! The point is, by law.....as a police officer I can have the loaded rifle or shotgun in my POV.

The problem is not with failing to read the entire section, the problem is the PGC making laws in direct conflict with the UFA and doing nothing to alleviate the issue, instead they further the conflict.

The first PGC law I posted refered to ANY firearm in ANY vehicle at ANY time unless the officer was on "official business".

The second law did not clear up this issue. It only says I can have a loaded handgun (firearm by definition) when hunting.

Steve of Pa

The law says: any activity regulated by this title = Hunting

6109 - Firearm concealed on or about ones person or in a vehicle if a LEO or LTCF is OK

6102 -"Firearm"- "any pistol,shotgun or rifle" (paraphrased)

Your reference to a loaded handgun only is your definition, not as defined under 6102.You could carry a concealed shotgun, of the proper length, if you wished to.

As a LEO, you should be able to carry any loaded firearm in the state, whether on or off duty, but if you only have an M4 in Philly, you are seriously undergunned. And you can't hunt with a weapon not covered under this title (34).

The original post stated that a LEO could not have any firearm in any vehicle at any time unless on official business. I believe this says he can, but I could be wrong.

The legislature gives the PGC the authority to issue these regulations, same as Tile 18, the one you enforce - no conflicts there?

Larrymeyer
The individuals exempt from licensing - make your voices heard. Should it be Leo, LTCF and exempt?

Re: Darby, it was illegal prior to this amendment. The Chief has been in that job for at least 20 years. Even WCO's were prohibited from carrying a pistol prior to this change, if engaged in hunting.

You make a good point about a loaded firearm in a vehicle while hunting, fishing or trapping. the regulation seems to say its ok, if you are actually engaged in the activity.

I don't want to start a whole new discussion, but why not get a LTCF and cover all the bases?

And no, you, Rich or anyone else should not be treated any differently in this regard. The state constitution says so.

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by PropCop

Steve of Pa

Larrymeyer
The individuals exempt from licensing - make your voices heard. Should it be Leo, LTCF and exempt?

Re: Darby, it was illegal prior to this amendment. The Chief has been in that job for at least 20 years. Even WCO's were prohibited from carrying a pistol prior to this change, if engaged in hunting.

You make a good point about a loaded firearm in a vehicle while hunting, fishing or trapping. the regulation seems to say its ok, if you are actually engaged in the activity.

I don't want to start a whole new discussion, but why not get a LTCF and cover all the bases?

And no, you, Rich or anyone else should not be treated any differently in this regard. The state constitution says so.

So I take it you know Bobby and the other officers in Darby, there were some good officers down there. However there were bad ones which gave the good ones a bad name. Knew a lot of them but been out of Darby for about 20 years now my daughter still lives on Pine St though in the old house.

[PropCop]

Larry,

You know the situation. Nuff said.