PGC says off-duty police officers cannot carry in a vehicle!

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Booner

Steve, who was this WCO?

He's retired. I believe he was the leader (or close to it) of the LE division.

Never the less, there are several instances where PA firearms laws conflict. Steve is just pointing out another one. How is one to know which provision, which section, which title take precedence? IANAL, but Steve seems to take the literal approach, as I do, and makes a good case. So many revisions and additions to the PA laws over the years, that now our firearms laws are a jumbled mosh of conflicting statutes waiting to trap the unwary.

I still want to know if I can carry concealed while on my ATV. Title 75 (I believe) is in conflict with title 18.

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I still want to know if I can carry concealed while on my ATV. Title 75 (I believe) is in conflict with title 18.

You make good points.

Even beyond the confusion in the law is the peril faced when you'd think the law is clear. The preemption provision appears to be clear on its face. That doesn't mean you won't be arrested and charged under any law that actually has been preempted. It is then up to you to defend yourself, spending time, money, and the risk of your liberty (as in prison) in exchange for status quo -- that you violated no valid law. Sure, you can sue for official oppression but there goes more time and money.

Ultimately, I don't see any easy solutions. It's always been a problem and money is usually the only thing that solves a lot of problems.

[Kendrickson]

Originally Posted by PapaJazz26

Ok wait....I just got confused, When I got my LTCF i really only intended to use it for target shooting, so thats what I checked, although "thanks to this site" I am now a regular CC guy and am experimenting with OC, is CC still ok?? I though I read on here that it doesn't matter what is checked, if not...what do I need to do??

This is my question as well. I checked several reasons for the license, although protection was one of them. The sheriff (actually, I think it was a deputy) specifically chose protection to put on the license, however. I wonder if this is the reason why.
By the way, the Carbon County Sheriff's office was fabulous about issuing my license. The were very friendly and supportive, and they issued it on the spot when I filled out my application.

[Steve in PA]

The supposed retired WCO posts under John S. on this other board.

Like I said, this all started with a discussion about Sportsman's Permits. Under the UFA........a person with the SP is allowed to carry concealed on his person while hunting, fishing, etc...........plus, he is also allowed to carry in his vehicle while going to or coming from those places. There is no mention of the firearm (handgun) having to be unloaded.

If it was illegal to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle while going to or coming from those places, the law would have to spell that out. It doesn't.

In other exceptions to 6106, they specifically state when the firearm must be unloaded. The SP exceptions, (b)(9), (10) are the same as the police officer exception (b)(1), making no mention of the firearm having to be unloaded, which would be insane if your a LEO.

But this WCO claims I am wrong, even after I showed hiim the law. Which then brought me to the PGC law this thread was about. I tried to explain to him that while the PGC can write laws about firearms while hunting, they do not cover the person driving to or from those activities.

The whole argument is over by the person just getting a License to Carry, but that's not the point. You have several laws in direct conflict with one another.

Which brought me to the example, PA law says you can turn right on red (where allowed), but PGC says no, you can never turn right on red.

PS. I'm not trying to push anyone with just the SP to do push the envelope. Your own your own there. I'm just pointing out by law, if you are stopped by a LEO, you are legal. But if a WCO stops you or catches you....you might get cited???

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Steve in PA

I'm just pointing out by law, if you are stopped by a LEO, you are legal. But if a WCO stops you or catches you....you might get cited???

Yeah, welcome to our world. Try dealing with every contradiction throughout all gov't regulation related to guns when you can't flash a badge.

He's one for you. Open carry is lawful. Let's you and me give it a whorl all over say Darby, or Chester City, or Philly or Reading, or . . . . When we get rousted and/or arrested as disorderly on every other block, you have to vouch for me.

[Steve in PA]

Well..........I don't OC myself, but if I did.....I've got a "get out of jail free card" don't know if it will work for you too

[PropCop]

Stopphillysmdrrate,
The PGC doesn't count fish, the PFBC does.

I do not speak for my agency (or any other officer) in any way shape or form, just how I do business. If you are boating or fishing and have either an SP or LTCF, you are good to go. A LEO is covered by LEOSA. To me, a LTCF is good no matter what reason is stated on the license. I also have a LTCF to cover me off duty, just in case.

What I believe the PGC is trying to accomplish is for either safety (a loaded shotgun in a boat while underway when hunting waterfowl), or to stop poachers and for safety reasons when hunting game when in a vehicle. There are a lot of laws which conflict with others. Education and a common sense approach in their application is always the best way to go.

Regarding OC, I don't hassle people for exercising their rights. Other agencies in my county may not have the same views.

[PA-Joe]

Up have in the NE a significant number of game code violations are by LEOs. In fact a number of Dickson City Cops were charges a few years ago with bating, if I recall correctly.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by PropCop

...What I believe the PGC is trying to accomplish is for either safety (a loaded shotgun in a boat while underway when hunting waterfowl), or to stop poachers and for safety reasons when hunting game when in a vehicle. There are a lot of laws which conflict with others. Education and a common sense approach in their application is always the best way to go..

Good point. The bolded part is where the issues lie. If you get an unknowledgeable or overzealous WCO, a problem is more likely.
I wish these game laws that conflict with title 18 laws would be addressed. They are unnecessarily, and without benefit, doing harm to some citizens that get tied up in between them.

[PropCop]

PA Patriot,

The problems usually stem from not reading the complete regulation, along with the amendments. The entire issue that started this thread was resolved by the following:

Sec. 2525. Amended November 29, 2006, Act No. 162, Effective January 28, 2007.

Sec. 2525. Possession of firearm for protection of self or others.

(a) General rule.- It is lawful for a law enforcement officer or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm issued under 18 Pa C.S. Section 6109 (relating to licenses) to be in possession of a loaded or unloaded firearm while engaged in any activity regulated by this title.

(b) Construction.

(1) This section shall supersede any prohibition on the possession of firearms or ammunition contained in any other provision of this title.

(2) This subsection shall not be construed to permit the hunting or harvesting of any wildlife with a firearm or ammunition not otherwise permitted by this title.

(c) Definitions. - As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Firearm." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).

"Law enforcement officer." As defined in 18 Pa C.S. §6102 (relating to definitions).

The original regulation was found to be in conflict with Title 18 and corrected by the above. I missed it in the first go round too!

BTW - based on the thread that refers to all your "powers", you and your wife have a great sense of humor. I'm glad I found and joined this site - a great bunch of people.