maximum defensive engagement range

[Sig_Dude]

Someone once told me that it is legal to engage someone defensively (of course defensively that goes without saying) up to I believe 7 yards. Maybe it was 5 yards. Anyway is this true or is there no "maximum range" law?

[Pa. Patriot]

No such law.

Your shoot is either justified by the circumstances, en total, or it is not. Distance is only one variable. But not a mandatory one.

[rwilson452]

As far as I know there is no defined ma range. However you going to need to be able to convince the PD and the DA that the threat was immediate and you couldn't wait one more second. Generally if your assailant is armed with a blade the 21 foot rule usually applies. If the BG is in a "technical" and armed with Ma Deuce and your in open terrain, I would say your pretty much unlimited.

Originally Posted by Sig_Dude

Someone once told me that it is legal to engage someone defensively (of course defensively that goes without saying) up to I believe 7 yards. Maybe it was 5 yards. Anyway is this true or is there no "maximum range" law?

[Sig_Dude]

That's what I thought. Probably for 99% of the BG's you'd run into, 7 yards is the "unwritten rule", but if some wacko is shooting across your farm with an AK, things are different.

[policemedic]

There is no law that defines at what range you may shoot someone if you are otherwise justified.

Just be right, and don't miss.

[OneLungMcClung]

Originally Posted by Sig_Dude

That's what I thought. Probably for 99% of the BG's you'd run into, 7 yards is the "unwritten rule", but if some wacko is shooting across your farm with an AK, things are different.

The 7 yards thing is actually an interpretation of an FBI study that I read about where they found that the average handgun engagement range was 22 feet (~7 yards). Don't quote me on that - I have no sources.

The distance in feet during a deadly force engagement is irrelevant as long as you can justify that use of deadly force. If your life is threatened and the BG is at 20 yards and you can't escape and you are a good enough shot that you hit him and incapacitate or kill him, it is a "good shoot". I don't believe there is an "unwritten rule". Picked off someone from 200 yards with a Remington 700? If they were in the process of raping/shooting/stabbing someone and their was no help in site I'm sure you could convince a jury to believe you with the right jury and right lawyer. He'd better be Johnny Cochrane though.

[righteousbarbarian]

Originally Posted by OneLungMcClung

Picked off someone from 200 yards with a Remington 700? If they were in the process of raping/shooting/stabbing someone and their was no help in site I'm sure you could convince a jury to believe you with the right jury and right lawyer. He'd better be Johnny Cochrane though.

I hope so, because If someone is shooting up my apartment complex or something and I have a chance to snipe them with a safe backstop, I'm going to take the shot to save people's lives, even if I have to fight for my freedom afterwards. God is the only judge I care about with respect to eternity.

[DaveM55]

I posted this once before. Message here is the 21ft rule doesn't give anyone a license to shoot. Other factors are involved.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/col...rticles/102828

For more than 20 years now, a concept called the 21-Foot Rule has been a core component in training officers to defend themselves against edged weapons.

Originating from research by Salt Lake City trainer Dennis Tueller and popularized by the Street Survival Seminar and the seminal instructional video "Surviving Edged Weapons," the "rule" states that in the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.

The implication, therefore, is that when dealing with an edged-weapon wielder at anything less than 21 feet an officer had better have his gun out and ready to shoot before the offender starts rushing him or else he risks being set upon and injured or killed before he can draw his sidearm and effectively defeat the attack.

"Unfortunately, some officers and apparently some trainers as well have 'streamlined' the 21-Foot Rule in a way that gravely distorts its meaning and exposes them to highly undesirable legal consequences," Lewinski says. Namely, they have come to believe that the Rule means that a subject brandishing an edged weapon when positioned at any distance less than 21 feet from an officer can justifiably be shot.

For example, an article on the 21-Foot Rule in a highly respected LE magazine states in its opening sentence that "a suspect armed with an edged weapon and within twenty-one feet of a police officer presents a deadly threat." The "common knowledge" that "deadly force against him is justified" has long been "accepted in police and court circles," the article continues.

Statements like that, Lewinski says, "have led officers to believe that no matter what position they're in, even with their gun on target and their finger on the trigger, they are in extreme danger at 21 feet. They believe they don't have a chance of surviving unless they preempt the suspect by shooting.

"However widespread that contaminated interpretation may be, it is NOT accurate. A suspect with a knife within 21 feet of an officer is POTENTIALLY a deadly threat. He does warrant getting your gun out and ready. But he cannot be considered an actual threat justifying deadly force until he takes the first overt action in furtherance of intention--like starting to rush or lunge toward the officer with intent to do harm. Even then there may be factors besides distance that influence a force decision.

continued at link...

[Tokamak]

DaveM55

I see you are/were a tweet. If EEs are still called that.

I was one during Vietnam. Worked on A3s. Radar, navigations, communications.

You do not often see the atom patch.

[DaveM55]

Originally Posted by Tokamak

DaveM55

I see you are/were a tweet. If EEs are still called that.

I was one during Vietnam. Worked on A3s. Radar, navigations, communications.

You do not often see the atom patch.

I was an ET (Electronic Technician) not an EE. We were called twigits not tweets when I was in. I was also black shoe not brown.

What is an EE?

I worked on and taught shipboard surface search radar and communications.

Spent fours and a half years at Great Lakes.