Refusal to accept license application?

[OwnTheRide]

There appears to be a growing trend of counties bordering NY refusing to accept an application for an LTCF by non-residents. Reading 6109, there's nowhere that I can find that explicitly requires a sheriff to accept an application, it appears that such a requirement is simply assumed.

While I know most forum members here are residents, and hence don't care, I think it's worth pointing out that if this proves effective, there's little to stop counties (or Philly) from doing the same for residents. This seems like a trend that should be nipped in the bud before it gets out of control.

I have decided that I will fight it, in courts if necessary, come renewal time. But the idea of waiting until I have legal standing to fight something bugs me. That's a lot of time where this problem could get steadily worse.

Suggestions?

[eagleclaw]

As far as I’m concerned PA gun owners are going to have their own problems in the not so distant future namely if a democratic anti-gun governor gets elected. Also there are enough posts on this web site explaining how Pa residents wanting to apply for a LTCF in certain counties and cities (Phila) are running into red tape because sheriffs/police want extra information beyond what is normally required. The aforementioned is what PA gun owners should be worring about. The NY residents who want a nonresident LTCF, who gleefully voted for Cuomo can fight their own battles.

[OwnTheRide]

As far as I’m concerned PA gun owners are going to have their own problems in the not so distant future namely if a democratic anti-gun governor gets elected. Also there are enough posts on this web site explaining how Pa residents wanting to apply for a LTCF in certain counties and cities (Phila) are running into red tape because sheriffs/police want extra information beyond what is normally required. The aforementioned is what PA gun owners should be worring about. The NY residents who want a nonresident LTCF, who gleefully voted for Cuomo can fight their own battles.

Interestingly, this radical misconception of NY is part of the problem. NYS consists of 57 counties held hostage by 5. Unfortunately, too many people think that anyone from the 57 are actually of the 5. Upstate NY is demographically and politically very similar to western PA... Cuomo is no more popular than Bloomtard in 57 of the 62 counties of NY, which is to say that there's a whole lot of hatred for both.

I think it's important to preserve the few remaining "free" states we have, which is why I'm willing to invest the time and money to attempt to correct unlawful activities in a state that issues a license that I have no need for. It's rather naive to think this issue won't start to affect PA residents in time.

The fact that I live 10 miles north of an imaginary line shouldn't relegate me to second class citizenship. Unfortunately, it appears that NYS - and you - disagree.

[Kurt_D]

It doesn't say, anywhere, in 6109 that a sheriff may be choosey about accepting applications for an LTCF. What it DOES say is this:

(b) Place of application.--An individual who is 21 years of age or older may apply to a sheriff for a license to carry a firearm concealed on or about his person or in a vehicle within this Commonwealth. If the applicant is a resident of this Commonwealth, he shall make application with the sheriff of the county in which he resides or, if a resident of a city of the first class, with the chief of police of that city.

In Para (d) of 6109, it says that the sheriff SHALL perform the necessary investigations pursuant to issuing (or not) that license - it doesn't give him the choice of refusing those applications. He may deny the license but not deny accepting the application nor refuse to do the investigation (for a resident or non-resident).

The problem (if you want to call it that) is that unless someone is affected by a sheriff's refusal to accept an application, they have no standing to legally challenge the sheriff's policy about it. IANAL but that has been stated in these forums on numerous occasions.

@eagleclaw: What do you have to say about those in NYS who DIDN'T vote for the powers that be. You could apply that same logic here in PA, that we all deserve the AG (and the spawn of her office) that we now have, even those who voted against her.

[GunLawyer001]

Generally, a refusal to accept an application is a constructive denial, and if you have a witness, or videotape (all-party consent), or a written acknowledgement of the refusal, then you can treat it as a denial. And you then have standing to appeal in Common Pleas Court.

In Common Pleas, the Sheriff better have something better than "he's not a PA resident". He needs to be able to point to a statutory basis for denial.

[GunLawyer001]

As far as I’m concerned PA gun owners are going to have their own problems in the not so distant future namely if a democratic anti-gun governor gets elected. Also there are enough posts on this web site explaining how Pa residents wanting to apply for a LTCF in certain counties and cities (Phila) are running into red tape because sheriffs/police want extra information beyond what is normally required. The aforementioned is what PA gun owners should be worring about. The NY residents who want a nonresident LTCF, who gleefully voted for Cuomo can fight their own battles.

We can still complain about Obama though, right? Except for you, because if he was elected President of the United States, then you must have gleefully voted for him, if your logic holds true....

[HiredGoon]

Generally, a refusal to accept an application is a constructive denial, and if you have a witness, or videotape (all-party consent), ...

I thought that video-ing a LEO in performance of their duty is legal without consent.

Of course one could argue that a sheriff or deputy is not a LEO in PA.

And also, of course, not all employees of a sheriff's office (or I assume PPD) are actual deputy sheriffs.

[GunLawyer001]

I thought that video-ing a LEO in performance of their duty is legal without consent.

Of course one could argue that a sheriff or deputy is not a LEO in PA.

And also, of course, not all employees of a sheriff's office (or I assume PPD) are actual deputy sheriffs.

I doubt that the case law is that broad, but I've never really dived into the research.

Probably a difference between recording them while they stop you on a public road, and recording them in their office.

I could be wrong. I'd err on the side of "definitely not committing a major crime with my videocam", though.

[HiredGoon]

I doubt that the case law is that broad, but I've never really dived into the research.

Probably a difference between recording them while they stop you on a public road, and recording them in their office.

Yeah, that makes sense. Road vs office.

I could be wrong. I'd err on the side of "definitely not committing a major crime with my videocam", though.

Yep! Once again, the voice of reason speaks

[mojollnir]

So, in Monroe cnty where the Gestapo asks for things other than required by state law, and ALWAYS refuses to ACCEPT an application without those documents,......How can this lil Dicktator be brought inline with state laws???

Video documentation??? not by your own doing in this court house...Subpoena of video from his system within the court house??? good luck...

Written refusal to accept the application with all REQUIRED state docs??? Really not likely, as this would be proof of their illegal behavior.

A witness that can and will go the distance against the Top Ranking court officer ?? Your gona need a really good friend, or be able to pay your lawyer to be there for you.

So what will it take to fix the illegal behavior of the Monroe cnty Sheriff??