Would you know you were being robbed?

[mercop]

I have discovered in classes that most “normal” people would not realize they were being robbed. Thanks to televisions and movies most people seem to think that all robberies are violent and dynamic. Some may be. Violent and dynamic attract a lot of attention and tend to include noise. When “normal” people get robbed (and by normal I mean people that do their best to avoid stupid things, places and people, or are not subjected to street types because of residence or employment) I have found that the typical approach may be very subtle.

Picture yourself walking out of a convenience store. There is a guy just standing up against the wall. You saw him when you walked in and noticed him looking at you. As you were getting out of your car you were getting off of your cell phone. He walks up and says “let me hold your cell phone” that is street slang for give me your cell phone or I am going to take it. You are in the middle of at least a strong arm robbery, a felony in progress. Would you realize it? He has not threatened you, he has not shown a weapon, he may not have even raised his voice. If all of your personal protection training relies on being physically attacked, what do you do now?

I am not posing this question to get a response since we have see before that what you think you would do is not necessarily happen in real life.
You can just comply. If you don’t chances are your property will be taken by force. Why should he display a gun or knife and expose himself to another charge when most people just “kick it out”? Maybe he has a 40 oz beer bottle in his hand when he makes the request. A reasonable person could assume that if you did not comply with his demands the beer bottle may be used as a weapon. Just food for thought.

[Rule10b5]

Well, you could always respond by smiling, saying "What's up?" and removing your cover garment.

[jofreder]

Since you bring this topic up I think this is wereI can then ask this question. I am approached and it is requested that I give up my Cell phone and Bad Guy has a knife pointing at me.

The UFA states

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:
(ii)...the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, ...

Now, According to this I need to surrender my Cell Phone but if i do not and lets say I feel threatened by his actions and I shoot him as he is comming at me with the knife.

There is no way for me to know if I give him the cell phone he will just leave, next its my wallet then my car etc... But it will certainly be argued in court that the UFA says I should surrender my goods.

The whole reasonable person feels threatened will be challanged. But I did read, I think Gunlawyer wrote it , that I am not required to give up my possessions.

So what do we do?

[BerksCountyDave]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Well, you could always respond by smiling, saying "What's up?" and removing your cover garment.

Perfect answer. +1

[WitsBusa]

Originally Posted by mercop

He walks up and says “let me hold your cell phone” that is street slang for give me your cell phone or I am going to take it.

Dang.. I'm going to have to learn some of this new "slang".

Unless the guy looked like a hood, I'd probably have laughed and told the cracka "whatever"..

[LorDiego01]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Well, you could always respond by smiling, saying "YO YO Whattup dawg?" continue walking, and if the subject approaches you, or continues with the conversation... removing your cover garment.

There, fixed it for ya for increased accuracy.

[{PooPSticK}]

Say no then see where it goes from there

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by jofreder

Since you bring this topic up I think this is wereI can then ask this question. I am approached and it is requested that I give up my Cell phone and Bad Guy has a knife pointing at me.

The UFA states

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:
(ii)...the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, ...

Now, According to this I need to surrender my Cell Phone but if i do not and lets say I feel threatened by his actions and I shoot him as he is comming at me with the knife.

There is no way for me to know if I give him the cell phone he will just leave, next its my wallet then my car etc... But it will certainly be argued in court that the UFA says I should surrender my goods.

The whole reasonable person feels threatened will be challanged. But I did read, I think Gunlawyer wrote it , that I am not required to give up my possessions.

So what do we do?

But once threatened with immediate deadly force, how can you know that surrendering your property will result in your complete safety? How many times have robbers taken property and then beaten and/or killed the victim? I'd say there are very few instances, under PA law, where you can avoid using deadly force with complete safety, once you've already been threatened with deadly force.

To answer the OP, though, I'd go along with just making small talk. Or give him a quarter to go use a pay phone instead, haha.

[Longshot]

Originally Posted by jofreder

Since you bring this topic up I think this is wereI can then ask this question. I am approached and it is requested that I give up my Cell phone and Bad Guy has a knife pointing at me.

The UFA states

(2) The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat; nor is it justifiable if:
(ii)...the actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, ...

Now, According to this I need to surrender my Cell Phone but if i do not and lets say I feel threatened by his actions and I shoot him as he is comming at me with the knife.

There is no way for me to know if I give him the cell phone he will just leave, next its my wallet then my car etc... But it will certainly be argued in court that the UFA says I should surrender my goods.

The whole reasonable person feels threatened will be challanged. But I did read, I think Gunlawyer wrote it , that I am not required to give up my possessions.

So what do we do?

The red I think is the "Key phrase", If someone came up to you and said "Give my cell phone back" that person would be "asserting a claim of right".

Now I don't know if the same can be said if he is holding a weapon and saying "Give me your F*ing Phone!".

[{PooPSticK}]

Just for the sake of argument say the guy has no weapon of any kind......but hes built like A pro wrestler and your built like peewee herman does this change your reaction/response/liability in any way?