Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    So, while I was banned for a month for 'personal attacks' (I'm sure it won't be the last time...), I went for a walk with my family. As walked along the Saucon rail trail, and as we did, I stopped to read the sign posted about the rules. Now, for once, I did not have my weapon on me, nor did my wife. Part of it said 'no weapons'. Now, the trail isn't privately owned, so I was asking myself 'wtf?'. So I went home and placed a call to the Hellertown borough building. Initially, someone answered the phone and talked to me, but admitted that she didn't have the answer, so I said I'd call back. I called back over an hour later, and got no answer on multiple tries, until one lady picked up, and was so rude I hung up on her.

    So, I finally decided to walk over there myself. I took off my gun, spare mag, knife, Gerber (multi-tool), and to the building I went.

    I walked in, and was helped by a very nice young lady who remembered me from the phone earlier (the good one), and went off to get an answer for me on what the deal was, since both open OC/CC are legal.

    She came back with a partial answer, concerning CC, and I asked further questions, which caused her to go get an officer (whose name I do not remember for the life of me, but it was something Italian).

    He was a pretty decent guy. Came out, we shook hands, and I posed my questions: If OC/CC is legal, and the trail isn't privately owned, then what's with the rule against firearms?

    He said that yes, OC/CC are legal, and that the law is aimed more at hunting rifles, because the trail goes through the woods, and they don't want hunters taking their rifles and hunting off the trail. Ok, makes sense. He also said, however, that if I carried a handgun, to keep it concealed. I asked why?

    This is where it gets interesting: he said that while OC is legal, that if they got a call from someone saying that there is a man with a gun on the trail, they'd respond, detain me momentarily, "take my weapon, and check to see if it's registered".

    Uh, wtf? Registered? Where? How? Take my gun you say, oh really? Wait just a goddamned minute here!

    He then asked if I had any weapons on my person at the moment, to which I said "No, this is a government building, I even left my multi-tool at home". He also asked to see my LTCF.

    Now I know some of you will have a shit-fit for this (go ahead, have your little spasms, it's all the same to me) and I agreed, albeit hesitantly. If I wasn't carrying a weapon, then why would he need to see it? But I took out my wallet and showed it to him. I did not, however, take it out of my wallet. Partially because I didn't want him going in back and writing down my info and checking up on me periodically, and partially because I couldn't get the damned card out from under the plastic, since it hasn't moved out of my wallet in over a year.

    So here's my questions in all this: Why take my gun? What registry are you talking about? And why the hell did they want to see my LTCF?

    He was never rude, he didn't throw his weight around, and was polite and a decent guy the whole time...just some of his answers... intrigued me.

    Questions? Comments? Concerns? Bitching and moaning about how I handled it?
    Popichak is probably trolling this for his next story...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    So here's my questions in all this: Why take my gun? What registry are you talking about? And why the hell did they want to see my LTCF?

    He was never rude, he didn't throw his weight around, and was polite and a decent guy the whole time...just some of his answers... intrigued me.
    Short answer, because they can. Nobody has ever challenged them, so they have no reason not to. Many officers don't know any better, at some point they probably saw a senior officer take a firearm off somebody and thought that's just how it's done.

    The "registry" they are talking about is the sales database. It is not a registry, it is not legally allowed to be used as a registry, it is nowhere near any form of a complete registry. There are plenty of valid reasons why a legally owned firearm would not be in that database, and I'm sure somebody will be along to go over those reasons in detail so I will refrain because I am not 100% clear on all of the specifics. You can bet however the officer you spoke to does not know any of it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    So here's my questions in all this: Why take my gun? What registry are you talking about? And why the hell did they want to see my LTCF?
    why not ask him those same questions while you were there?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    He then asked if I had any weapons on my person at the moment, to which I said "No, this is a government building, I even left my multi-tool at home". He also asked to see my LTCF.
    Was this a federal building? For the most part, you can carry in a state or municipal building as long as it does not contain a court, detention facility, or K-12 school.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    It was the local borough building, so I wasn't 100% sure what the legality of that was, so I err'd on the side of caution. I live pretty close by, so it wasn't a far trot.
    Popichak is probably trolling this for his next story...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    It was the local borough building, so I wasn't 100% sure what the legality of that was, so I err'd on the side of caution. I live pretty close by, so it wasn't a far trot.
    Well, you may not have been sure, but at least the cop now thinks he can arrest people for it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    I walk that trail almost every day, but I always CC on it. The only reason I do is that I like to listen to music when I walk, and don't OC if I have earbuds on.

    I always assumed that their 'no firearms' rule meant no *use* of firearms.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    I've actually been thinking of going back and giving him some literature to read to educate him, since his Dept. has OBVIOUSLY failed him in that facet.
    Popichak is probably trolling this for his next story...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    I wasn't sure WHAT they meant. It said 'no firearms'...which I thought was...well, illegal for them to say if they trail wasn't privately owned. And if it is, why are so many people allowed to use it? But it's owned by the borough/township I guess, so they have to follow PA state law.
    Popichak is probably trolling this for his next story...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: So...interesting talk with Hellertown police a few weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micky View Post
    I've actually been thinking of going back and giving him some literature to read to educate him, since his Dept. has OBVIOUSLY failed him in that facet.
    I am not sure that the department or the state has failed these cops on training. I think that sometimes the officer is told what is acceptable and what is not. the counties and townships have ignored preemption. So what is stopping them from telling the cops how things should be enforced?


    And then there is how the officer interprets the law. how his own opinion falls into play.
    Last edited by normanvin; June 13th, 2012 at 11:54 AM.
    troll Free. It's all in your mind.

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