Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Action alert on HB2011 regarding Pre-Emption

Rep Mike Turzai has committed to move HB 2011. This bill strengthens pre-emption by providing for standing and compensation of expenses in the event a local law needs to be challenged that conflicts with State gun laws. Corbett said he will sign if it is put on his desk in the remaining 11 days left to the legislative session.

For more information and updates on these efforts, and to get involved, CLICK HERE


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 26th, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Default Pa gun laws

I'm moving to Exton soon and found this on Chester county Sheriff's web site. On the application for LTCF under reason for license it has target shooting, hunting & fishing, and gun collecting. You need a weapons permit for that stuff in Pa?

Firearms Permit FAQ


Q. Is the License to carry a firearm issued in Chester County valid in other parts of the Commonwealth?
A. YES. The License to Carry a Firearm issued in Chester County is valid throughout Pennsylvania, including state parks and the City of Philadelphia. Please keep in mind that there are some areas where it is prohibited to carry a firearm: schools, courts (both county and district), and county properties (parks, and anywhere it may be posted). Starting January 2010, it will be legal to carry in Federal Parks. Please check with the park you are visiting regarding their rules.

Q. Is the license valid for just one gun I wish to carry?
A. NO. The license is good for any weapon you own.

Q. Do I need a license for target shooting?
A. NO. You should transport the weapon(s) to and from the range unloaded. Transport the ammo in a separate area of the vehicle. Put the weapon(s) in the trunk of your vehicle, wrapped up or in a case. The weapon(s) should not be accessible to anyone in the vehicle. You must go directly to and from the range.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_eagle View Post
I'm moving to Exton soon and found this on Chester county Sheriff's web site. On the application for LTCF under reason for license it has target shooting, hunting & fishing, and gun collecting. You need a weapons permit for that stuff in Pa?
Not specifically. You don't need a LTCF to transport an unloaded long gun with unloaded magazines and ammo kept in a separate container, to and from your hunting area or target range without stops. You need no paperwork whatsoever to purchase a firearm.

And if you're fishing with a gun, you're doing it wrong.

Per statute, you do not need any reason to get a LTCF other than wanting it. Whatever else extra they ask at the sheriff is not a statutory requirement.

Welcome to the forums. Please read:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html (READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania)
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...carry-you.html (Your Pennsylvania Gun Rights ~Handy flyer to carry with you.)

All of the answers you seek are in there.

I am not a lawyer, for further legal advice, I suggest you contact a lawyer.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_eagle View Post
I'm moving to Exton soon and found this on Chester county Sheriff's web site. On the application for LTCF under reason for license it has target shooting, hunting & fishing, and gun collecting. You need a weapons permit for that stuff in Pa?

Firearms Permit FAQ


Q. Is the License to carry a firearm issued in Chester County valid in other parts of the Commonwealth?
A. YES. The License to Carry a Firearm issued in Chester County is valid throughout Pennsylvania, including state parks and the City of Philadelphia. Please keep in mind that there are some areas where it is prohibited to carry a firearm: schools, courts (both county and district), and county properties (parks, and anywhere it may be posted). Starting January 2010, it will be legal to carry in Federal Parks. Please check with the park you are visiting regarding their rules.

Q. Is the license valid for just one gun I wish to carry?
A. NO. The license is good for any weapon you own.

Q. Do I need a license for target shooting?
A. NO. You should transport the weapon(s) to and from the range unloaded. Transport the ammo in a separate area of the vehicle. Put the weapon(s) in the trunk of your vehicle, wrapped up or in a case. The weapon(s) should not be accessible to anyone in the vehicle. You must go directly to and from the range.
You do not need a license to openly carry a firearm on foot in PA (except in Philly, which requires an LTCF).
If you do not have an LTCF, and you are going to the range in an automobile, you must go directly to the range and directly home after with no stops in between (they are working on this one according to my state rep).

I would like to point out a common claim by sheriffs that is untrue (and part of the above post)...
Quote:
and county properties (parks, and anywhere it may be posted)
Counties and municipalities may not regulate the carriage or posession of firearms in PA.
They like to think they can, but they can not.
The house is working on legislation that punishes counties and municipalities for violating preemption.
There have been several successful campaigns to have the anti gun language removed from county park sinage recently, and you may want to get involved in such a campaign in Chester county.
I carry in county parks regardless of sinage (though in light of full disclosure I have not encountered a relivant sign in the parks I go to).
I am led to believe that if arrested, or if a firearm is siezed, while carrying in a county park it is a violation of the PA UFA, and a conviction or siezure will not stand.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by red_eagle View Post
I'm moving to Exton soon and found this on Chester county Sheriff's web site. On the application for LTCF under reason for license it has target shooting, hunting & fishing, and gun collecting. You need a weapons permit for that stuff in Pa?

Firearms Permit FAQ


Q. Is the License to carry a firearm issued in Chester County valid in other parts of the Commonwealth?
A. YES. The License to Carry a Firearm issued in Chester County is valid throughout Pennsylvania, including state parks and the City of Philadelphia. Please keep in mind that there are some areas where it is prohibited to carry a firearm: schools, courts (both county and district), and county properties (parks, and anywhere it may be posted). Starting January 2010, it will be legal to carry in Federal Parks. Please check with the park you are visiting regarding their rules.

Q. Is the license valid for just one gun I wish to carry?
A. NO. The license is good for any weapon you own.

Q. Do I need a license for target shooting?
A. NO. You should transport the weapon(s) to and from the range unloaded. Transport the ammo in a separate area of the vehicle. Put the weapon(s) in the trunk of your vehicle, wrapped up or in a case. The weapon(s) should not be accessible to anyone in the vehicle. You must go directly to and from the range.
You don't need a license to own or purchase firearms in Pa.

You need a LTCF to carry one loaded on your person or in a vehicle unless you are open carrying while on foot (except in Philly still need the ltcf).

You can carry in municipal parks and other public property, the sheriff is an idiot. The whole posted thing isn't entirely true either. There is no specific
law that prohibits carrying where no firearm signs exist as in some states, although private property rules due apply, and you can be asked to leave, or possibly be charged with trespass. Personally Iíve never seen one.

Unfortunately the issue with target shooting and having to go directly to and from those activities with a handgun (no matter how it is transported) is true without a ltcf. Not long guns, just handguns. In fact without a ltcf you cannot transport a handgun at all with few exceptions such as: target practice, purchasing the gun, to a gun smith, or hunting, presuming the gun is lawful to hunt with.

If you have your Texas carry permit itís the same as a ltcf provided there is no issue with Texas after you move.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

If you have handguns, you need to get an LTCF just to avoid all the crazy laws about transporting them. When I applied for my LTCF in Chester County a couple of years ago, I had checked "Target Shooting" (I had no intention of carrying at the time). The deputy slid the application back across the counter and asked me to "check self defense." I did, and my license says "self defense." It really doesn't matter, but I suspect that it could cause a problem with a cop in a reciprocal state if you license says "target shooting."

As for the parks, Chester County -- like many places -- has an ordinance against possession of firearms in its parks. We all know it's pre-empted under state law, but it is out there. Sheriffs in Pennsylvania have very limited authority (they can't go to the park and arrest you, even if they want to). They have no authority and probably no influence over the dozens of local law enforcement agencies in the county -- who will be the ones to actually arrest you. Essentially, she's just telling you that you may be arrested. You'd be almost certain to prevail in court (at your expense) if the DA were foolish enough to pursue it. The county commissioners and the solicitor are the proper people to deal with it.

Last edited by donm; July 26th, 2011 at 04:07 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by donm View Post
If you have handguns, you need to get an LTCF just to avoid all the crazy laws about transporting them. When I applied for my LTCF in Chester County a couple of years ago, I had checked "Target Shooting" (I had no intention of carrying at the time). The deputy slid the application back across the counter and asked me to "check self defense." I did, and my license says "self defense." It really doesn't matter, but I suspect that it could cause a problem with a cop in a reciprocal state if you license says "target shooting."

As for the parks, Chester County -- like many places -- has an ordinance against possession of firearms in its parks. We all know it's pre-empted under state law, but it is out there. Sheriffs in Pennsylvania have very limited authority (they can't go to the park and arrest you, even if they want to). They have no authority and probably no influence over the dozens of local law enforcement agencies in the county -- who will be the ones to actually arrest you. Essentially, she's just telling you that you may be arrested. You'd be almost certain to prevail in court (at your expense) if the DA were foolish enough to pursue it. The county commissioners and the solicitor are the proper people to deal with it.
Just so you know, the Chester County commissioners don't want to deal with it, and the solicitor thinks that the preemption law does "not apply", and that the rules on statutory construction, case law on preemption, and the letter from the Corbett as AG about preemption "don't apply".

If you want more details I can send them to you.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9orangeletters View Post
Not specifically. You don't need a LTCF to transport an unloaded long gun with unloaded magazines and ammo kept in a separate container, to and from your hunting area or target range without stops. You need no paperwork whatsoever to purchase a firearm.

And if you're fishing with a gun, you're doing it wrong.

Per statute, you do not need any reason to get a LTCF other than wanting it. Whatever else extra they ask at the sheriff is not a statutory requirement.

Welcome to the forums. Please read:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html (READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania)
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...carry-you.html (Your Pennsylvania Gun Rights ~Handy flyer to carry with you.)

All of the answers you seek are in there.

I am not a lawyer, for further legal advice, I suggest you contact a lawyer.
An unloaded long gun can be kept in your car at all times if you wish. The without stops requirement only applies to handguns.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

I would always check self defense as a reason. Some states issue limited use permits and it might confuse the LEO.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

+1 for Self Defense. All of the other options are reasons I own guns... but Self Defense is the reason I carry one.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Pa gun laws

Of the listed reasons for applying for a LTCF, "self defense" also has the advantage of being the one reason expressly protected by the PA constitution.
Quote:
Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.


The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.
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