Small Victory and Allegheny County

[PeteG]

One of my former trainees lives out-of-state, but has family in Allegheny County and has a LTCC. When he went to renew it in August, he was denied because he is not a "resident of Allegheny County." Rather than make internet posts and bark about his rights from the porch, he decided to fight it.

I went to the Sheriff's office to file an administrative appeal. Nobody there had a clue what I was talking about. In fact, I was told my client was "not denied" - they just refused to issue his renewal because "you have to live in Allegheny County." (????) I was also told the prior Sheriff "was wrong" to issue the permit in the first place.

I finally wrung a "denial appeal form" out of them, which is one page. It has about six inches of blah blah blah, and about two inches of space to explain why one is appealing. I threw that away, and send a letter to the Solicitor for the Sheriff's Department, laying out the law establishing the right of out-of-state residents to obtain a permit here, and under what conditions.

Lo, and behold, the Solicitor has now advised me he has recommended the staff at the Sheriff's office be reversed, and that my client's LTCC be renewed. The Sheriff now understands the requirements of the law. The total cost was well under $1,000.

There are many ways to fight. Some work well, some not so well.

Biting the bullet and going through the legal system works much better than mf'ing the cops or sitting on the porch and barking.

[ExCopInPhilly]

Excellent. Great job! Score another victory for the good guys!

[XD45]

Originally Posted by PeteG

One of my former trainees lives out-of-state, but has family in Allegheny County and has a LTCC. When he went to renew it in August, he was denied becuase he is not a "resident of Allegheny County." Rather than make internet posts and bark about his rights from the porch, he decided to fight it.

I went to the Sheriff's office to file an administrative appeal. Nobody there had a clue what I was talking about. In fact, I was told my client was "not denied," they just refused to issue his renewal. I was also told the prior Sheriff "was wrong" to issue the permit in the first place.

I finally got a "denial appeal form," which has about three inches of space to explain why one is appealing. I threw that away, and send a letter to the Solicitor for the Sheriff's Department, laying out the law establishing the right of out-of-state residents to obtain a permit here, and under what conditions.

Lo, and behold, the Solicitor has advised me he has recommended the staff at the Sheriff's office be reversed, and that my client's LTCC be renewed. The Sheriff now understands the requirements of the law.

glad to hear it, With as big as Allegheny Co. is it's quite surprising it took them this long to figure out NR permits are legal.

[DaveM55]

Well done!

10 character rule.

[Zef_66]

Great job!!!!

[fultonCoShooter]

glad everything worked out congrats!!!

[elston32]

Originally Posted by PeteG

Lo, and behold, the Solicitor has now advised me he has recommended the staff at the Sheriff's office be reversed, and that my client's LTCC be renewed. The Sheriff now understands the requirements of the law. The total cost was well under $1,000.

There are many ways to fight. Some work well, some not so well.

Biting the bullet and going through the legal system works much better than mf'ing the cops or sitting on the porch and barking.

Great job, PeteG!!

However, the fact that an individual who live out-of-state has to hire a professional to inform local law enforcement in-state law they should already know is really annoying and an unreasonable burden.


---elston.

[LittleRedToyota]

nice job pete. thanks to both you and your client for fighting for our rights.

i wouldn't totally discount the value of making internet posts and barking about your rights, though. "preaching the gospel", "spreading the word", or whatever you want to call it does have a positive effect as well...of course, you need action to go along with it. thanks again for your action.

[PeteG]

Originally Posted by elston32

However, the fact that an individual who live out-of-state has to hire a professional to inform local law enforcement in-state law they should already know is really annoying and an unreasonable burden.
---elston.

Yes, it is. But it is much easier than having to choose between knuckling under or risking your life.

Too many people use the fact the system is not perfect (slow, expensive, stacked in favor or monied interests, sometimes gives bad results) as an excuse to do nothing . . . nothing, that is, but whine or bluster.

There will always be somebody (be it individual official or group) who will try to dominate. It may be unfortuante, but, in life, "always the big fish eats the little fish." The question is not whether it should happen, because it will. The question is how one can resist.

I think it is important to recognize that one of the great things about the United States is we can resist government excess or abuse without having to put it all on the line.

This is why I am so contemptuous of those who proclaim: "They can have my gun when they pry my dead, cold hands from around it!* [* So long as I don't have to spend any money, miss any work, or risk getting my name on a list.]" Legal means of resistance are at hand, but these guys always have a reason not to put themselves out. They disregard a precious right to which we were all born (at the expense of those who went before us) simply because it is inconvenient. Then they attempt to cover thier sloth, selfishness and/or cowardice with a bumper-sticker slogan.

I feel very fortunate that it is not necessary for things to come to a choice between physical resistance or subjugation. I am grateful for this right in part because I know those who always have a reason not to put themselves out to defend thier rights in court or take a day off to attend a protest will ever risk their lives to help anyone, even themselves.

My client does not appear to have ever had a moment's doubt. It was just a matter of fact that he was going to fight. He was not happy, but he was not confused about what needed to be done.

If 10% of gun owners were like him, we would not have the problems we have.

[TRB]

Kudos to both your client for being willing to spend the money to claim his rights and to you for wading through the bureaucracy to help. In light of this accomplishment, does it solve the problem for the next person applying for a non-resident license? Or is it likely that the next guy will have the same problem?